CAP Fiscal Transparency

[RiverAux]

One of the issues that has sort of nagged at me is an apparent lack of fiscal transparency in CAP finances, primarily at the Wing level.  I do a lot of skimming of Wing web pages and newsletters and rarely find any specific information about budget and spending, other than occassional comments about needing to save money in various ways. 

Now, I don't think that individual members need to have 24/7 access to cancelled checks or anything that detailed, however I think it is entirely appropriate that at least balance sheets be made available to the membership on a regular basis -- that is pretty standard in most volunteer organizations. 

Of course, just because I haven't seen this information on the web, doesn't mean that members aren't getting it through more direct means.

So, what I would like to know is:
1.  Do you have or do you receive (or could easily get) information on your Wing's income and expenditures? 
2.  Are minutes of the wing finance commitee made available to the membership in some manner? 
3.  Has any of this gotten better or gotten worse due to the Wing Banker program as it has been implemented? 
4.  How are you getting the information mentioned in 1 or 2?  Wing web page?  Emails to members?  Details given at Commander's call or staff meetings?

To a lesser extent, I'd like to hear comments on the above at squadron level.  However, I think squadrons are generally a lot more open on this issue since they often have to do fundraisers to support themselves so the unit fiscal status is of great interest and presumably discussed fairly often among the local members.

[IceNine]

we can get the information IF, we attend the wing staff meeting other than that its a big secret

[FW]

One of the issues that has sort of nagged at me is an apparent lack of fiscal transparency in CAP finances, primarily at the Wing level.  I do a lot of skimming of Wing web pages and newsletters and rarely find any specific information about budget and spending, other than occasional comments about needing to save money in various ways. 

So, what I would like to know is:
1.  Do you have or do you receive (or could easily get) information on your Wing's income and expenditures? 
2.  Are minutes of the wing finance committee made available to the membership in some manner? 
3.  Has any of this gotten better or gotten worse due to the Wing Banker program as it has been implemented? 
4.  How are you getting the information mentioned in 1 or 2?  Wing web page?  Emails to members?  Details given at Commander's call or staff meetings?

To a lesser extent, I'd like to hear comments on the above at squadron level.  However, I think squadrons are generally a lot more open on this issue since they often have to do fundraisers to support themselves so the unit fiscal status is of great interest and presumably discussed fairly often among the local members.

River,
Financial information should, at wing level,  be open for the membership to review (go through chain of command).  Most money comes from membership dues and state grants so I wouldn't expect less.  Some wings print "annual reports" to the membership and include financial information.   Details, however, are the business of the Wing's finance committee and although not secret, are controlled by the wing/cc.  The WBP doesn't make this any different.   The WBP only requires each unit below wing get a detailed report of the unit's financials.  

If any member wishes to review F.C. minutes or wing budget, etc.  I would suggest asking(through chain) the wing/fm for the information.  I don't know of any reason why, other than it being a  pain in the ...  not to do it.  After all, the National Finance Committee publishes all the minutes of its meetings and proceedings.  And the budgets are also made public.  You just need to know where to look, or who to ask.  If you would like details of National's finances, ask your wing/cc.  They have complete access through the National Controllers office or, if they must, the National Finance Officer.  I would suggest however, you don't go directly to the NFO.  He is a real mean SOB and really isn't a "people person".  Asking him anything is like being at the Dentist and getting a root canal without anesthesia...   No don't ask him anything.

[mikeylikey]

I know it took a State Senator in 2007 to get the PAWG finances released for his personal view, before he would support a State grant.  The PAWG Finance Officer will not release financial information to the general membership without the Wing Commanders express consent.  The previous Wing Commander refused on most instances to let the membership see Wing HQ finances.  Mostly due to the fact that they would have seen that the $500,000 State Grant was divided between the PAID staff, specificly the Executive Director who took a percentage of teh total State Grant.  Funny that he got a salary and a "bonus" on top of what he takes home.  Even funier is the fact that it was the Wing's membership who lobbied thier state reps for the money, yet he got a percentage of the total. 

Then there are the "secret" Hawk MTN funding issues.  I think the secracy in PAWG stems from  the issue that they had stocks and bonds in the late 1990's, and had some "issues" with various Federal agencies because of it.   

[RiverAux]

After all, the National Finance Committee publishes all the minutes of its meetings and proceedings.

I'd be interested in seeing them.  Where are they published?  The Dec BoG minutes have several budget items, but the appendices where the information was supposed to be are blank.  Same goes for the Nov NEC discussion of the finance committee minutes (mentioned, but not included online). 

[mikeylikey]

^ There is no transparency, no matter what our National leadership says.  The mere fact that we have to ask to view the information equals nontransparent.  Even worse is we have to ask through our chain of command??  What is that all about?  As a private citizen I would like to know where my tax dollars are being spent, and on what.  Federal Agencies are required to publish "books" each year, shouldn't CAP do the same?!?!

Maybe the National Financial Officer (who is that again...... ) would like to publish these documents on the web for everyone to see?!?! 

 

[FW]

After all, the National Finance Committee publishes all the minutes of its meetings and proceedings.

I'd be interested in seeing them.  Where are they published?  The Dec BoG minutes have several budget items, but the appendices where the information was supposed to be are blank.  Same goes for the Nov NEC discussion of the finance committee minutes (mentioned, but not included online). 

You're right.  I thought they were there too.  But, the report to the NEC has all the substance of the meeting. 

Budget is divided into  Corp. and "Appropriated".     Corp. Budget for FY 08 is $2.7 million.
Appropriated Budget is about $27 million. 

If you come to Orlando for the NB meeting, I will give you a copy of the  '08 and '09 budgets.  I'm sure you'll be able to find me.  I'll sit up front.   

Maybe the National Financial Officer (who is that again...... ) would like to publish these documents on the web for everyone to see?!?! 
 

Mikey, if the NFO had any idea how to do that (with permission of the commander, of course), he would.  For now, you guys can either go through the wing/cc or meet me for some ginger ale at the Gaylord in Aug.

[Tubacap]

^I still haven't been there.

The idea of putting the annual report into eServices would be an outstanding idea though.  FW, is it on a computer?  I'm sure somebody at the NTC can put it up with the CC approval.

[RiverAux]

Well, the official CAP annual report to Congress is on the web site and it gives a VERY rough breakdown of expenditures. 

Really though I am more interested in the Wing level since that has a lot more direct impact on individual members and is easier for them to analyze. 

[ammotrucker]

I know this is probably off subject but I would like to know how Wing training  budjets are derived.  I think that it is a gross miscarriage that training gets so little money

[JC004]

Mikey, if the NFO had any idea how to do that (with permission of the commander, of course), he would.  For now, you guys can either go through the wing/cc or meet me for some ginger ale at the Gaylord in Aug.

Ginger ale is no good for my teeth.      Beer sounds good.   

[FW]

I know this is probably off subject but I would like to know how Wing training budjets are derived.  I think that it is a gross miscarriage that training gets so little money

Each region gets a training budget.  The region/cc divides the funds and disperses them to the wings according to how much they spent the previous year.  National Budgeted over 27,000 "A" mission training hours for this FY.  With only 3 months to go, only about 35% of the funds were spent.  So go forth and fly your missions!

[FW]

IThen there are the "secret" Hawk MTN funding issues.  I think the secracy in PAWG stems from  the issue that they had stocks and bonds in the late 1990's, and had some "issues" with various Federal agencies because of it.   

Mikey, why do you say such things.  All the stocks and bonds were transfered to my off shore account years ago.  I beat the rap and now enjoy the good life outside of Beaver Co., PA watching Pirates games and sipping Iron City Beer or Rolling Rock 7's  

Seriously, PAWG, other than a few CD's, has/had no other investments and,  Hawk Mt. gets no significant direct funding from the wing (it does get some from NHQ)  Don't you think I would know?

[desertengineer1]

River,

By regs, the finance process is not "closed book", but is subject to the chain of command.  This is to keep a basic sanity to everything, and ensure protection to everyone.

CAPR 173-2 para 16 states that Wing finance records WILL be available to unit commanders.   If you have a specific concern, the unit commander (through the unit finance officer if possible) is the first place to go. 

(http://level2.cap.gov/documents/u_082503080608.pdf)

Every now and then, someone at wing will have a problem with a unit commander.  In my case (when I was a unit commander), the wing finance officer asked me to leave a finance meeting because I "was not a member".   I corrected that quietly and we did fine after that.

No one at wing can tell your unit commander he/she cannot review finance records - period.  If they do, it's immediately to the wing CC you go.  If he/she refuses, off to the IG.

The central answer to your questions is that the unit CC does.  The only concerns we've had at my location is the additional time it takes to get reimbursed through wing banker.

Onother common misperception is that units are STILL required to keep track of thier expendatures/requests/approvals.

One of the issues that has sort of nagged at me is an apparent lack of fiscal transparency in CAP finances, primarily at the Wing level.  I do a lot of skimming of Wing web pages and newsletters and rarely find any specific information about budget and spending, other than occassional comments about needing to save money in various ways. 

Now, I don't think that individual members need to have 24/7 access to cancelled checks or anything that detailed, however I think it is entirely appropriate that at least balance sheets be made available to the membership on a regular basis -- that is pretty standard in most volunteer organizations. 

Of course, just because I haven't seen this information on the web, doesn't mean that members aren't getting it through more direct means.

So, what I would like to know is:
1.  Do you have or do you receive (or could easily get) information on your Wing's income and expenditures? 
2.  Are minutes of the wing finance commitee made available to the membership in some manner? 
3.  Has any of this gotten better or gotten worse due to the Wing Banker program as it has been implemented? 
4.  How are you getting the information mentioned in 1 or 2?  Wing web page?  Emails to members?  Details given at Commander's call or staff meetings?

To a lesser extent, I'd like to hear comments on the above at squadron level.  However, I think squadrons are generally a lot more open on this issue since they often have to do fundraisers to support themselves so the unit fiscal status is of great interest and presumably discussed fairly often among the local members.

[RiverAux]

Thanks for the cite.  Frankly, this had just been an issue that was sort of a mild irritant to me, but now it is rising to the level of pet peeve.  Why?

Here is the paragraph he cited:

16. Financial Records. All financial records must be made available to the commanders, region/wing director of finance, members of region/wing/unit finance committees, wing financial analysts, CAP/FM, State and United States Government auditors, external auditors, CAP/IG, or any CAP-USAF personnel. All journals, ledgers, bank reconciliations, cancelled checks, invoices, and documentation supporting expenses and books of original entry will be retained by the region/wing in accordance with CAPR 10-2, Files Maintenance and Records Disposition. CAPR 10-2 specifies the record retention requirements of DoDGARs.

So, by our own regulation CAP members in general have no right to know anything about CAP finances at any level unless they are part of the select group.  That is just plain wrong. 

Now, as a general rule I don't think many CAP members are going to have any interest in examining raw financial data (looking at cancelled checks, etc.), but I think our regulations should allow it to happen at the request of a member at a reasonable time. 

Depending on the laws in your state and perhaps whether your unit gets any sort of public funding, if someone wanted to make a pest of themselves they might be able to get this information through a state version of the Freedom of Information Act (if you take public money in some states you may be subject to the state FOIA).  Don't know about federal FOIA, but I think it wouldn't apply. 

But, really though, I would mostly be satisfied with a requirement for units to produce some sort of annual financial report for the members of the applicable unit at some reasonable level of detail. 

If there is a reg that would alleviate these concerns, I'd be glad to hear about it.

[KyCAP]

I think you are reading this to "strictly".  Others on the thread are trying to say that the Reg "explicitly" provide certain folks access to this information in order to get the information to you the member if you want it as a point of "customer service".  The regulation is providing a set of "points of contact" and guidance to who "outside" of the chain of command can have it in their course of doing business.  The regulation is not intended to obfuscate information from anyone.

Most employees in government wouldn't know where to get a copy of a "city budget" so their employee hand book tells them where to go.   As a citizen, not a CAP member you might have to file a freedom of information act request if national didn't just drop one in the mail to the inquiring mind..   School system budgets come to mind as being equally obscure, but available.

[FW]

Capt., your explanation is very accurate.  However, as a citizen, you have no "FOIA" rights for the Corp. Budget.  or CAP's "appropriated budget;  at any level.
You can file a FOIA request to the USAF but you'll only get what's published in the annual report.

The books of the corporation (at all levels) are open to all members.  You just need to go through proper channels.  

[RiverAux]

The books of the corporation (at all levels) are open to all members.  You just need to go through proper channels. 

Technically they are not open to members.  There is no provision in the regulation for a member to request or require that CAP provide such information. 

[FW]

^ OK, just to end the discussion, I'll grant that to you.  However, this is not a regulatory issue; this is a constitutional and bylaws issue.  The bylaws of CAP state the "books" must be open to any "corporate officer".   There is nothing in the bylaws which state a corporate officer can not share this information with the general membership.  So, if your Wing/CC wants to share, he may.  If you ask, he may not too.  But, there is also a reason we have FWA regs.   Fiscal transparency is a must for good governance.  I would be wary of any commander who refused a proper request to look at the "books".  

If you have a need and a refusal is given, start going up the chain.  If the request is proper (and that includes a genuine interest), you'll get permission.  If you want regular access, I suggest you become a finance officer ,  I'm sure the position can be readily had at almost any level.

[DG]

Each region gets a training budget.  The region/cc divides the funds and disperses them to the wings according to how much they spent the previous year.  National Budgeted over 27,000 "A" mission training hours for this FY.  With only 3 months to go, only about 35% of the funds were spent.  So go forth and fly your missions!

Colonel, what was it that happened, in the beginning of this FY, wherein we were told for 4-5 months by our Wing DO that there was NO training budget or O-flights authorized?