Airdropping in Oregon

[RiverAux]

According to this big article in the Portland paper, they're developing a "Small Pack Aerial Rescue Kit" for use by CAP aircraft and others that will include radio, food, water, shelter, fire starter, flashlight, a knife that will be dropped to survivors on the ground.  http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/news/121151311928910.xml&coll=7&thispage=1

[sarflyer]

Neat idea!

[Duke Dillio]

So yeah, I'm not a pilot or anything, but I thought it was against the FAA regs to drop anything from an aircraft in flight?  Are they gonna add this to the SQTR for observers?  Task D-0001 - Dropping relief supplies from aircraft to survivors

Interesting concept though.

Hey RiverAux, are you from Oregon?

[Flying Pig]

Its not really prohibited, you just cant do it if it causes a hazard to people or property. 

[Duke Dillio]

"Boeing Bombs".....

[RiverAux]

Nope, just have google and yahoo news alerts set up for civil air patrol. 

I believe it is prohibited by 60-1 but I think there is an exception of some kind.  Sorry, no time to look it up...

[jeders]

Nope, just have google and yahoo news alerts set up for civil air patrol. 

I believe it is prohibited by 60-1 but I think there is an exception of some kind.  Sorry, no time to look it up...

If I recall correctly, it's prohibited except when done to save a life, which it seems this is intended to do.

[Indaweeds]

http://www.paraflite.com/pdfs/_AS-Website_Marketing_PDFs/22-AIR%20DROPPABLE%20SURVIVAL%20KITS/SPARK/SPARK.pdf

[PHall]

I know for airdrop training in the Air Force, we could only drop on a desiganated Drop Zone that had been approved by the FAA.

Drop stuff anywhere else and a Dropped Object Report was filled out.

[Hawk200]

I know for airdrop training in the Air Force, we could only drop on a desiganated Drop Zone that had been approved by the FAA.

Drop stuff anywhere else and a Dropped Object Report was filled out.

Alaska Wing had a mission several years ago to look for a C-130 cargo door that fell off the plane. Don't know if they found it, just remember my Squadron CC telling me about it, and a few months later, one of the pilots on the search visited the unit.

I guess he and the commander were old buddies, even though one lived in Anchorage, and our commander in North Pole.

[CadetProgramGuy]

taken from CAP.gov/answers.  Emphasis mine.

CAP does not have any procedures for dropping emergency relief supplies from its light aircraft. CAPR 60-1, CAP Flight Management, para 2-4, prohibits "dropping of objects unless such action is to prevent loss of life." To exercise the "to prevent loss of life" option, the situation would have to be certifiably critical with no other resource reasonably available. Procedures would have to be developed ad hoc and very carefully briefed. With the ready availability of helicopters, ATVs, etc., the need for such action has not been demonstrated for many years. Hence, for safety and practical reasons, CAP has no light aircraft drop procedures.

[gistek]

My first husband's family were missionaries in Brazil back in the '60's. There wan't anywhere for the mail plane to land, so the pilot devised a bucket method to deliver and pick up mail.

Basiccally he flew in a circle over a clearing and lowered a covered bucket to just above ground level. I don't know the height/diameter ratio, but when the bucket could be reached by someone on the ground, it was almost stationary.

I suppose it had a little spin, but nothing that prevented someone from the village from retreiving the mail packet and replacing it with their out-going.

I'm sure there are pilots around that know how this was done.

[Gunner C]

My first husband's family were missionaries in Brazil back in the '60's. There wan't anywhere for the mail plane to land, so the pilot devised a bucket method to deliver and pick up mail.

Basiccally he flew in a circle over a clearing and lowered a covered bucket to just above ground level. I don't know the height/diameter ratio, but when the bucket could be reached by someone on the ground, it was almost stationary.

I suppose it had a little spin, but nothing that prevented someone from the village from retreiving the mail packet and replacing it with their out-going.

I'm sure there are pilots around that know how this was done.

It's been done in SF for about 40+ years:

You suspend a loop of rope between two poles aprox. 10' tall and 10' apart.  the loop is tied to the payload which shouldn't be more than a pound or two.  The plane (must be able to fly low and VERY slow) flies about 20' AGL.  A crewmember sits in the rear door with a grapnel hook on the end of 30' of rope.  It's VERY important that the rope not be tied to anything and be free running through the hands of the man in the door.  The crewmember lets the hook skim about 5' off the ground and snags the loop between the poles. The crewmember pulls the rope, hook, loop, and payload into the aircraft.  I've seen it done a couple of times - works pretty good.  BTW, the crewmember MUST have a monkey harness on to keep him from sliding out the door - 50-60 knots from about 30' is pretty devistating. 

GC

[JohnKachenmeister]

If I recall correctly, a waiver of 60-1 for dropping objects can be approved by National/Ops.  In the case of Alaska, I would be willing to bet it has been approved.

"The availability of helicopters..." is not assured in Alaska.  The drop can be made safely, since (other than the victims) there is nothing there to hit.

[Gunner C]

If I recall correctly, a waiver of 60-1 for dropping objects can be approved by National/Ops.  In the case of Alaska, I would be willing to bet it has been approved.

"The availability of helicopters..." is not assured in Alaska.  The drop can be made safely, since (other than the victims) there is nothing there to hit.

Jettisoning something from an aircraft is dangerous for the aircraft, the aircrew, as well as folks on the ground. It should be left to folks who are trained as jumpmasters and are trained/comfortable around open aircraft doors.  There's a great number of things that can go wrong, usually spectacularly.

GC

[JohnKachenmeister]

If I recall correctly, a waiver of 60-1 for dropping objects can be approved by National/Ops.  In the case of Alaska, I would be willing to bet it has been approved.

"The availability of helicopters..." is not assured in Alaska.  The drop can be made safely, since (other than the victims) there is nothing there to hit.

Jettisoning something from an aircraft is dangerous for the aircraft, the aircrew, as well as folks on the ground. It should be left to folks who are trained as jumpmasters and are trained/comfortable around open aircraft doors.  There's a great number of things that can go wrong, usually spectacularly.

GC

Gunner:

The pack they are dropping does not sound big enough to have to open an aircraft door.  It probably could be dropped from a window while the aircraft was in a fairly-tight circle.  It doesn't sound like any special skill set would be needed.  Also, that is Alaska we are talking about, and I think that is how some folks get their mail up there.

[RiverAux]

It probably could be dropped from a window while the aircaft was in a fairly-tight circle. 

Assuming the you have a window that opens fully.  Not sure that I've seen one on a current CAP aircraft.  Certainly the new 182s don't open all the way. 

[MIKE]

If they ordered the Airvans to NINs specs with the jump door installed etc... you would be all set. 

[JohnKachenmeister]

It probably could be dropped from a window while the aircaft was in a fairly-tight circle. 

Assuming the you have a window that opens fully.  Not sure that I've seen one on a current CAP aircraft.  Certainly the new 182s don't open all the way. 

Alaska has a lot of non-standard CAP aircraft, plus a LOT of Alaska Wing guys fly their own planes.

[NIN]

If they ordered the Airvans to NINs specs with the jump door installed etc... you would be all set. 

• The door on the Airvan can be opened in flight (it slides forward). No jump door needed.
• Per the POH, the aircraft is limited to 90kts with the door open.
• I'm comfortable working inside aircraft in flight with the door open (moreso if I'm wearing a rig)
• I am also comfortable working outside aircraft in flight for short periods of time (see the aforementioned requirement for a rig)
• Sounds like just the thing that I need to be helping CAP test