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CAP Talk  |  Operations  |  Emergency Services & Operations  |  Topic: Foreign 121.5 hits
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♠SARKID♠
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,836
Unit: GLR-WI-002

Timmerman Composite Squadron - WIWG - CAP
« on: May 04, 2008, 01:28:14 AM »

This is a question I've wondered about for a while but never got around to posting.  What happens when SARSAT/COSPAS picks up a hit on 121.5 in a country other than the US or Russia (and I think France is in the mix too)?  Does AFRCC notify the government of the country?  Or do they let it go and hope it turns off?  Do other countries have teams equipped for tracking signals?  Aside from ELTs which would eventually run out of battery power, a malfunctioning electronic device could transmit indefinitely if its plugged into the wall.  And if nothing is done, multiple devices could compound signals and clog up the satellite system.
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           Capt. Dan Turkal
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                WI-204/CC
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afgeo4
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,566

« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2008, 02:54:23 AM »

This is a question I've wondered about for a while but never got around to posting.  What happens when SARSAT/COSPAS picks up a hit on 121.5 in a country other than the US or Russia (and I think France is in the mix too)?  Does AFRCC notify the government of the country?  Or do they let it go and hope it turns off?  Do other countries have teams equipped for tracking signals?  Aside from ELTs which would eventually run out of battery power, a malfunctioning electronic device could transmit indefinitely if its plugged into the wall.  And if nothing is done, multiple devices could compound signals and clog up the satellite system.

If a signal is picked up over a foreign country, that country's agency is notified by the sat system automatically, the same way that AFRCC is notified if the hit is over CONUS.

Russia has a federal rescue agency to respond to land signals. Maritime signals are dispatched to the Russian navy and the naval assets of the border patrol (their coast guard).

I assume other nations function the same way.
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GEORGE LURYE
RiverAux
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 10,966

« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2008, 11:10:05 AM »

Based on what we were told during a recent SAR Management Course the system doesn't get "clogged up" with ELTs, but what can be a problem is having multiple ELTs activated in the same area so that their signals are more or less on top of each other.  I too had heard that the system could only handle a certain number of ELTs at the same time and maybe that was the case at one time, but apparently isn't anymore.
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sardak
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,194

« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2008, 12:38:16 PM »

The best place to learn how the Sarsat system works worldwide is by starting under the "Description" drop down menu at the Cospas-Sarsat program website.
http://www.cospas-sarsat.org

Here is a worldwide map of the LEOLUTs - the land user terminals (LUT) for the low earth orbiting (LEO) satellites. The map shows areas of no coverage for the 121.5 MHz signals.  The 406 system fills these gaps.
http://www.cospas-sarsat.org/Status/leoCov.htm

A map of the Mission Control Centers (MCC) worldwide.  The MCCs process the signals received by the LUTs, then automatically forward the reports to the Rescue Coordinations Centers (RCC).  In the US the MCC is NOAA.
http://www.cospas-sarsat.org/Description/mcc_list.htm

The system does have a limit on how many 406 beacons it can process at a time.  That's why there are no more beacons being manufactured on 406.025 MHz.  The current beacons are being manufactured with a frequency of 406.028 MHz, and eventually the number of beacons on that frequency will max out.  The limits are based on statistics, probabilities and packet theory.  The entire system, including the 406 beacons themselves, is designed to minimize the number of packet collisions.  A packet collision could possibly result in a signal being missed.

The response and DF capability of countries is probably proportional to their need and socio-economic status.  Documents on the Cospas-Sarsat website under Programme Management provide some information.

Mike
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JohnKachenmeister
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 3,352

« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2008, 01:05:21 PM »

The Mexican Air Force has a fleet of Cessna 182's that are equipped just like our CAP planes for SAR.  I saw them when I went to Acapulco.  (They have an Officers' Club on their base, and I was welcomed there to do some patch trading.)  They took me to their flight line and showed me their planes.  About 15 C-182's and one C-47.  We talked "SAR y Cerveza" for a few hours, then I went back to the beach.

I asked them what they did about an attack from an enemy when all they had was unarmed Cessnas, and a Teniente (Lieutenant) smiled and said:

"We dial 1-800-UNCLE-SAM!"
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Another former CAP officer
mikeylikey
Banned

Posts: 3,756

« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2008, 02:14:32 PM »

Doesn't Brazil have a Civil Air Patrol (that basically stole everything from us, as in corporate logos and stuff??)
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What's up monkeys?
CAP006
Member

Posts: 80

« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2008, 02:25:04 PM »

Doesn't Brazil have a Civil Air Patrol (that basically stole everything from us, as in corporate logos and stuff??)

I dont believe so man.  Ive been to Brazil two times and I dont think they have a Civil Air Patrol there.
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CAP 006 = one away from the Big Shot

C/2nd. Lt. Robert Dahms
Cadet ES Officer
Cadet Comm's Officer
Color Guard Commander
MER-NC-023
DeputyDog
Forum Regular

Posts: 196

« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2008, 02:44:13 PM »

Doesn't Brazil have a Civil Air Patrol (that basically stole everything from us, as in corporate logos and stuff??)
I dont believe so man.  Ive been to Brazil two times and I dont think they have a Civil Air Patrol there.

They do:

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=1958.msg32758#msg32758

Their website doesn't seem to want to work for me, but from what I remember they do not appear to be connected to the Brazilian military (but utilize uniforms and a grade structure) nor their government, do not have a cadet program, are only active in a few of their states, and do not appear to respond to ELT calls.
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CAP006
Member

Posts: 80

« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2008, 02:54:20 PM »

Doesn't Brazil have a Civil Air Patrol (that basically stole everything from us, as in corporate logos and stuff??)
I dont believe so man.  Ive been to Brazil two times and I dont think they have a Civil Air Patrol there.

They do:

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=1958.msg32758#msg32758

Their website doesn't seem to want to work for me, but from what I remember they do not appear to be connected to the Brazilian military (but utilize uniforms and a grade structure) nor their government, do not have a cadet program, are only active in a few of their states, and do not appear to respond to ELT calls.

Cool thank you for checking
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CAP 006 = one away from the Big Shot

C/2nd. Lt. Robert Dahms
Cadet ES Officer
Cadet Comm's Officer
Color Guard Commander
MER-NC-023
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CAP Talk  |  Operations  |  Emergency Services & Operations  |  Topic: Foreign 121.5 hits
 


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