Do retired Military Officers make better Commanders?

Started by jpnelson82, April 12, 2008, 12:43:44 PM

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JohnKachenmeister

You might find a difference between military guys who spent 20 years on active duty vs. most of their time in the Guard or Reserve.  Reservists and Guardsmen understand the conflicting roles of their members more so than the active duty side.
Another former CAP officer

ZigZag911

The best commanders, regardless of military experience, are those who have spent several years in a squadron, learning about CAP.

As Kach said, among the ex-military, reservists/Guard probably understand the tensions between CAP and 'real life' better than former active duty officers.

Short Field

Quote from: ZigZag911 on April 13, 2008, 11:28:02 PM
The best commanders, regardless of military experience, are those who have spent several years in a squadron, learning about CAP.

Point on!  The military can give you a fairly full bag of tools to bring to CAP - but it is how you use them and add to them that makes you sucessful. 

SAR/DR MP, ARCHOP, AOBD, GTM1, GBD, LSC, FASC, LO, PIO, MSO(T), & IC2
Wilson #2640

mikeylikey

Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on April 13, 2008, 09:49:01 PM
You might find a difference between military guys who spent 20 years on active duty vs. most of their time in the Guard or Reserve.  Reservists and Guardsmen understand the conflicting roles of their members more so than the active duty side.

Building on that, I would have to say that ROTC routed Officers both AD and RES are even more aware to conflicting roles as apposed to Academy or OCS/OTS Officers. 

Either way, Even AD types know there are conflicting roles.  We still have Soldiers that take a second job moonlighting, or the other typical "American family problems".  Just because we are AD, does not mean we are oblivious to the world off post. 

I was RES before I went AD, so I got a taste of both worlds.  RES and Guard does not mean you only think about your drill weekend when it approaches.  The RES Officers gave many hours during the month to making sure the unit was good to go, just as they did in their civilian careers.  I do commend RES/GUARD because they are the the ones truly playing the part of Citizen-Warrior as imagined when our nation was founded.

In my limited experience, Guard and Reserve Officers do bring better insight into the CAP game.   :clap: 
What's up monkeys?

DNall

Quote from: mikeylikey on April 14, 2008, 02:55:33 AM
Building on that, I would have to say that ROTC routed Officers both AD and RES are even more aware to conflicting roles as apposed to Academy or OCS/OTS Officers.
From a national guard OCS perspective - versus federal OCS - I'd have to disagree on that aspect. I agree that straight shot college-op OCS grads & academy have less perspective or tolerance for the human aspects.

Quote from: mikeylikey on April 14, 2008, 02:55:33 AM
In my limited experience, Guard and Reserve Officers do bring better insight into the CAP game.   :clap: 
I will try to keep up the stereotype for ya then sir.  ;D

Anyway, it's a real mixed bag. Mid to Sr grade military officers have a certain degree of leadership/mgmt training & have been promoted thru boards on merit, not just cause they hung around a while. They do have the fault of needing to learn the CAP system/culture & specifically about how to lead/manage volunteers. There's some good courses out there for that, one in particular from FEMA, that I think should be pre-req to granting their mil grade in CAP.

Likewise, civilians w/o mil experience that upper to executive level mgmt in decent sized companies, have had some formal training, etc also bring similar, if less well rounded, skill bases to the table. They tend to be better at picking up the CAP culture, but slow on the uptake with the mil aspects & formality (paperwork, etc), but about the same with the system & ldrshp/mgmt of volunteers.

I think the more interesting question is about people that have formal ldrshp/mgmt training, experience, and success outside of CAP versus Capt Joe Blow that hung out for a while & has no such qualifications. I think the guy w/o outside qualifications almost always fails, where the person with outside skills/etc tends to be successful if they take enough time to get their legs under them & address their minor deficiencies first. That's where I start asking why we aren't providing that kind of education/experience/merit based advancement/rewards for success kind of system internally. Why we're dependent on what they bring to the table form outside, but don't discriminate about that skill/experience.

RiverAux

I think what sinks many commanders (no matter their background) is getting put in charge of a squadron too soon after joining CAP.  No matter where you come from, if you don't know how the organization works at its most basic levels, you aren't going to make a good sq. commander.

What I think happens sometimes is that you'll get a former military person who gets put in charge too soon BECAUSE they have a military background.  I think there is a tendency to count on former military to know the job when in fact they're still learning how the ES qualification program works.  I think that 100% civilians are less likely to be thrust into a leadership role (or think they can take one on) as soon as the military types. 

Gunner C

Quote from: RiverAux on April 16, 2008, 07:48:11 PM
I think what sinks many commanders (no matter their background) is getting put in charge of a squadron too soon after joining CAP.  No matter where you come from, if you don't know how the organization works at its most basic levels, you aren't going to make a good sq. commander.


But that's what happens too many times.  How many units do you see with Lts in command with Lt Cols and Majs out the wazoo, sitting on their hands doing nothing. I'd send them to group.  I was a group commander as a capt with senior officers doing next to nothing.  It pissed me off.  I hadn't been back in CAP more than a couple of years.  I stayed in command four years and turned some things around.  I still couldn't get the CAP O4 & O5s to get off their dead butts.  But they looked cool with their gold and silver oak leaves on.

One of my squadron commanders was a 1st Lt.  Really good guy who worked hard.  He had a senior maj who kept on harping that I wouldn't sign his Lt Col Form 2.  The guy wanted to be called colonel but didn't want to be the commander. That pissed me off, too.  If you want the bling, do the freakin work. [/soap box]

GC

RiverAux

I was talking about CAP experience -- not rank -- refer to other threads about rank and squadron command.