Cadet enlisted grade insignia on shirt/service coat

[jayleswo]

Hi All,

I was re-reading the Interim Change Letter (ICL) to CAPM 39-1 dated 25 JAN 08 and was scratching my head a little.

http://level2.cap.gov/documents/2008_01_25_Uniforms.pdf

If I am reading this correctly, it authorizes cadets to wear the metal enlisted grade insignia on both sides of the collar and on both sides of the lapel for the service coat in lieu of the CAP cutout on the left side. If I am doing my math correctly, that's four enlisted insignia. So, when a cadet wears the service coat, that's a lot of grade insignia showing in pretty close proximity to each other (e.g. momentus overkill).

Wouldn't it make more sense for enlisted cadets to just wear the CAP cutouts on both lapels of the service coat w/o any grade insignia while wearing the grade insignia on both collars of the shirt, which should be plainly visible with the service coat? This arrangement would easily allow for removal of the service coat and wear of just the shirt while permitting the cadet to display his grade in all circumstances? Or am I reading this wrong?

John Aylesworth, Lt Col, CAP
Commander PCR-CA-151

[MIKE]

I think you are reading too much into it.  The photos and illustrations for service dress in the manual show no insignia being worn on the shirt/blouse collar. As it is they are essentially two entirely different uniform combinations.

[0]

I have to agree that it does sound like a case could be agrued for wearing two sets.  But you have to think of what looks right which would be the one set.  Although for the easy removal of service coat, I would suggest that the cadet carry a second set with them that way they don't have to get them back on the service coat later if they want to put that back on.

[DC]

Take a look at the pictures in 39-1. A cadet wearing the standard service uniform, that is no jacket, wears insignia on the collar of the shirt. In service dress those insignia are moved to the lepels of the coat, so the collar is empty. Only one set is needed.

[jayleswo]

Ok, that is helpful information. I looked at the pics in 39-1 and agree that is what it depicts. However, wouldn't it make more sense then to just keep the enlisted grade insignia on the shirt and have CAP cutouts on both sides of the service coat lapels so you don't have to keep moving insignia from the shirt collar to the lapels everytime you want to take your service coat off and then put it back on?

-- John

[0]

Ok, that is helpful information. I looked at the pics in 39-1 and agree that is what it depicts. However, wouldn't it make more sense then to just keep the enlisted grade insignia on the shirt and have CAP cutouts on both sides of the service coat lapels so you don't have to keep moving insignia from the shirt collar to the lapels everytime you want to take your service coat off and then put it back on?

-- John

that would look too busy to have to sets visible.  that's why I say carry an extra one in the pocket

[jayleswo]

that would look too busy to have to sets visible.  that's why I say carry an extra one in the pocket

No, I don't think so. I understand now that the current reg has cadets wear the enlisted grade insignia on both sides of the lapel on the service coat and no insignia on the shirt collar when the service coat is worn. However, when the service coat is not worn, they need to wear grade insignia on both sides of the collar of the shirt. That's too much insignia swapping.

The idea would be to omit wearing the enlisted grade insignia on the service coat, so just one set would be visible (on the shirt). Just wear the CAP cutouts on the lapels. No swapping insignia around needed as cadets take their coat off and put it back on and no unsightly holes in the collar of the shirt as would be case with the current arrangement.

-- John

[JayT]

Ok, that is helpful information. I looked at the pics in 39-1 and agree that is what it depicts. However, wouldn't it make more sense then to just keep the enlisted grade insignia on the shirt and have CAP cutouts on both sides of the service coat lapels so you don't have to keep moving insignia from the shirt collar to the lapels everytime you want to take your service coat off and then put it back on?

-- John

We wore two sets as enlisted cadets in AFJROTC, looked fine.
that would look too busy to have to sets visible.  that's why I say carry an extra one in the pocket

[mikeylikey]

So with this reasoning they should also be wearing two sets of ribbons and 2 nameplates.  Easy way around this whole issue is either wear the jacket or don't wear the jacket.  Pick one combo and drive on. 

Carrying around extra sets of everything for the tiny chance the jacket may come off is overkill.

[Timothy]

Normally you only have one "uniform of the day." If the UOD was service dress and you took off your coat, and applied all the right insignia to your blue shirt, you are still out of uniform from the UOD, correct? As a cadet in ROTC, if the UOD was service dress, on a hot day, in an administrative office environment we would remove our coats... the shirt stayed blank. But if anything official was happening, or if you were to leave the building that coat went right back on.

The Navy and Marine officers wear insignia on their shirt collars and service coats at the same time but that is partially because the rank insignia goes on the shoulders of the coat and not the lapel.

Only CAP cadets and AFJROTC cadets still wear shirt collar insignia. College ROTC and AF have shoulder slip-ons. I know that I was happy when I made C/2Lt because I didnt have to worry about pinning the stripes on my collar... I went out and swapped my blue shirt for a new one that didnt have pin holes in it. The pin-on hard boards in college were easy, and the switch to slip-ons on the service coat were even easier. I think my shadowbox of high school stuff is somewhere under my bed right now.