faith in the system

[CAP_truth]

Having elected commanders may work for the USCG/Aux but can not and would not work for CAP.
Who would vote?
How soon after membership is a member eligible to vote?
Senior members?
Cadet members?
How would they vote?
Who would and how would the votes be handled?
Who would run for positions?
We elect our national commander like the catholic church, our leadership elects one of its own and head. We have a system that may not work all the time, and you have to play politics to really get ahead within this organization. But its the current game in town. If its not to your liking become a wing commander or higher and work to change it, or you can can find and organization that fits your beliefs and become a member there.
I have been a member for a long time and seen many commanders come and go. Some good ones and others not so good. I have seen dictator's and do nothings. I have seen membership levels over 100,00 members nationally. These was my opinions only.

[RiverAux]

There is basically no difference in the type and quality of senior members in CAP than in CG Aux.  You could take and Aux flotilla and a CAP squadron, switch their uniforms, and no one could tell the difference.  There is nothing so unique about CAP that we could not run it by elections. 

One of the strengths of the CG Aux is the fact that even if you get a bad leader elected now and again, they have clearly defined term limits and you know you won't have to live with them long.  Once someone gets appointed a squadron commander in CAP they may stick in that position for 10-20 years.  Or, more likely, quite capable CAP members refuse to take a leadership position because they know there isn't a real exit strategy.  They worry about getting stuck with it forever.  If they knew that they would only be doing it for 2 years max, they're much more likely to do it. 

[afgeo4]

Gentlemen, whatever the issue may be, I think the recent developments with Gen Pineda show us that in the end, the system does work. It isn't perfect and it probably needs to be monitored more stringently to minimize any negative effect on our membership, but it works.

Just as a reminder to all members of CapTalk... I believe that this is an open forum for members of the Civil Air Patrol. Please be courteous to others and please respect others' rights to voice their opinions when they do it with respect. This is not the place to put people's opinions down or to tell them not to voice them. This is I believe the place to have well-formulated and unbiased arguments. Telling someone that they should not voice opinions is neither.

[mikeylikey]

^ Well said!

So basically, we learned that no matter who you are in our organization, you are not above the "law"?!?

I have faith that in 20 years, we will look back on this past year and 2008 and say "that was the beginning of the best years of CAP".  (Speaking of course 20 years from now, at that time, looking back 20 years will be our future, and our future will be when CAP got even more awesome than it currently is.)

I think we may begin to see a shift in the CAP culture, and possibly a major expansion.  At least I hope so!

[flyguy06]

There is basically no difference in the type and quality of senior members in CAP than in CG Aux.  You could take and Aux flotilla and a CAP squadron, switch their uniforms, and no one could tell the difference.  There is nothing so unique about CAP that we could not run it by elections. 

One of the strengths of the CG Aux is the fact that even if you get a bad leader elected now and again, they have clearly defined term limits and you know you won't have to live with them long.  Once someone gets appointed a squadron commander in CAP they may stick in that position for 10-20 years.  Or, more likely, quite capable CAP members refuse to take a leadership position because they know there isn't a real exit strategy.  They worry about getting stuck with it forever.  If they knew that they would only be doing it for 2 years max, they're much more likely to do it. 

We do not need term limits for Squadron Commanders. Squadrons are the community level organizations. these are volunteers. If someone wants to volunteer to be a Squadron Commander and nobody else wants to do it, then that guy should be able to do it. Some units are small and not everyone wants to be a SquadronCommander. My former CC was in it for 20 years because he had the time and nobody else inthe unit wanted it. We dont want somebody from the outside comming in that we dont know

[RiverAux]

Who said anything about people coming in from outside the squadron? 

Somehow I doubt that there are many units with the same guy running them for 10-20 years that actually never had anyone else interested in doing the job.  The thing is that there isn't really a good way to "volunteer" for the position without implying that the current person is doing a bad job.  Any why would you volunteer yourself for a job that the current fellow has had for 10-20 years?  No one wants to get into that position.  However, if there were clear term limits and a up-front way of filling the position, I think many would do it.   

[flyguy06]

My Squadron has been around since 1984. We have had 4 Commanders. Its true. The first one was CC from 84-92. The second 92-94 the third 94-04 and now we have the current one. Our squadron is not very active and so there is not much for them to do. With term limits that forces someone who may not want the job to take it and last iI checked you cant force volunteers to do anything they dont want to

[RiverAux]

You may want to consider the possibility that your squadron has gone stale because you've had the same commander for so long.  A little new-guy dynamics can go a long way. 

[flyguy06]

You may want to consider the possibility that your squadron has gone stale because you've had the same commander for so long.  A little new-guy dynamics can go a long way. 

Yeah, but who's gonna do it? There is no one willing to do it. I know another unit that has had the same CC for about as long and they are still a dynamic active Squadron.

[Gunner C]

^ Wow!
the stuff you mentioned......that can be a movie.  20 CPT's resigning.....I don't know what to think of that.

It was one of the darkest chapters of Special Forces history.  The only one that I can think of was when Gen Creighton Abrams became chief of staff.  He said' "I will destroy Special Forces."  He darned near did.  He reduced us from 7 active duty groups to 3 and one of them was so undermanned the army almost got rid of it, too.

He was so hated in SF that when he was on his deathbed from lung cancer (I believe he was at Walter Reed), the Vietnam vets in the 19th SF Group (Utah Army National Guard) sent him a box of Cuban cigars with a note "Smoke in good health."  I got that story from one of the guys who was in on it. [/drift]

But it does illustrate a couple of points.  One:  the flashiest guy for the job is not necessarily the best guy for the job; two:  until the Army changed the way it trained its enlisteds (E-1 to E-3), NCOs (E-4 to E-9) and officers (W-1 to O-10) there was only one note being played  - me me me me me.

That's what's happening in CAP.  Service before self is being given lip service, but in practice, there's too many in chains of command who are looking out for number one and their cronies.  That's what happened with HWNWNBM and is still happening elsewhere.  Just read this board for a while.

But while there are a HUGE number of officers and cadets who are doing the right thing, there's still a inner core (not corps) of people who can't get past the mirror.  It would probably take a generation (as it did in the military) to weed out those who are only looking out for themselves.

GC