VSAF Uniform

[afgeo4]

^ There is a budget?  I must have missed that.  What needs budgeted?  I doubt there will be any expenses to this.  Unless they pay per diem for a member to eat on base, and travel expenses to/from.  But then I can see this program being open only to those members who meet on an AF base already for their weekly CAP meeting, and the logic will be, you don't get reimbursed for weekly meetings, no reimbursement for VSAF.

I would love for AF to provide the uniform! 

There's always a budget. Money has to be allocated for working environment, tools, administration of program and extra personnel on the AF side that may be assigned for all this. The issue is that the budget, considering how much work will be done, will be tiny and will make the Pentagon and base commanders very happy.

[afgeo4]

^ Vanguard.  Simple as that.  Makes you think......who at NHQ has a family member working for Vanguard. 

That was my thought, exactly.  The golf shirt has no rank and appears to be about equal to the new uniform on a business-casual plane.  Plus, the golf shirt has the advantage to being similar to an Air Force uniform worn by recruiters.  You know... one team, one fight, one uniform??

This new uniform has no purpose other than enriching Vanguard. 

Tell me again how "Integrity" is a core value.

This might be looked at from another perspective.

I believe that since there's a budget for VSAF from the DoD side, the budget will probably include uniforms for CAP-VSAF members. Could it be that USAF will issue these polo/khakis to those who are selected to do the job?

I think if that were the plan, they would have put that in the news release.

You know...

"We've got good news, and bad news.  The bad news is we want you to work more for free but this time in an uglier uniform.  The good news is your ugly uniform will be free."

I think most junior airmen will be very confused by the fact that we pay to work for USAF and we're going to have to be very resourceful in explaining it to them.

[mikeylikey]

There's always a budget. Money has to be allocated for working environment, tools, administration of program and extra personnel on the AF side that may be assigned for all this. The issue is that the budget, considering how much work will be done, will be tiny and will make the Pentagon and base commanders very happy.

Sorry, I was only thinking about budgets for reimbursements to CAP members.  I am sure the AF will spend the least amount of money doing whatever they do.  Figuring we may be replacing a deployed Airman, his tools and work environment will already be there.  They won't go invent things for us to do, they will just slot us in a space that was sitting open and wasting $$.  We will actually save AF Money doing their work for them.  Whats cheaper....hire a temporary civilian to work in the gym while Airman snuffy is gone, or get free help from CAP.  If we even did 1/3 of the work the deployed did before he or she left, we just increased productivity and saved $$ for Blue.

[afgeo4]

There's always a budget. Money has to be allocated for working environment, tools, administration of program and extra personnel on the AF side that may be assigned for all this. The issue is that the budget, considering how much work will be done, will be tiny and will make the Pentagon and base commanders very happy.

Sorry, I was only thinking about budgets for reimbursements to CAP members.  I am sure the AF will spend the least amount of money doing whatever they do.  Figuring we may be replacing a deployed Airman, his tools and work environment will already be there.  They won't go invent things for us to do, they will just slot us in a space that was sitting open and wasting $$.  We will actually save AF Money doing their work for them.  Whats cheaper....hire a temporary civilian to work in the gym while Airman snuffy is gone, or get free help from CAP.  If we even did 1/3 of the work the deployed did before he or she left, we just increased productivity and saved $$ for Blue.

Negative... slots of airmen cannot be filled by volunteers. We aren't trained for it, we aren't experienced in it and we don't have a job to lose if we screw up, so responsibility levels may be low.

I suspect they will create positions for us. Positions they've wanted for a long time and positions they would like, but never thought would be possible. That's where the whole Family Readiness things comes in. Normally, airmen volunteer for this shop anyway. It's not a military essential shop and it isn't part of base ops. The airman that used to man the base gym will now be working as a supervisor at the base gym and all we're going to do is change towels and check IDs.

[JohnKachenmeister]

There's always a budget. Money has to be allocated for working environment, tools, administration of program and extra personnel on the AF side that may be assigned for all this. The issue is that the budget, considering how much work will be done, will be tiny and will make the Pentagon and base commanders very happy.

Sorry, I was only thinking about budgets for reimbursements to CAP members.  I am sure the AF will spend the least amount of money doing whatever they do.  Figuring we may be replacing a deployed Airman, his tools and work environment will already be there.  They won't go invent things for us to do, they will just slot us in a space that was sitting open and wasting $$.  We will actually save AF Money doing their work for them.  Whats cheaper....hire a temporary civilian to work in the gym while Airman snuffy is gone, or get free help from CAP.  If we even did 1/3 of the work the deployed did before he or she left, we just increased productivity and saved $$ for Blue.

Negative... slots of airmen cannot be filled by volunteers. We aren't trained for it, we aren't experienced in it and we don't have a job to lose if we screw up, so responsibility levels may be low.

I suspect they will create positions for us. Positions they've wanted for a long time and positions they would like, but never thought would be possible. That's where the whole Family Readiness things comes in. Normally, airmen volunteer for this shop anyway. It's not a military essential shop and it isn't part of base ops. The airman that used to man the base gym will now be working as a supervisor at the base gym and all we're going to do is change towels and check IDs.

You're speaking for yourself on that point, G.  Some CAP members ARE trained to the standard at which airmen are trained, and beyond.  Some CAP members are recently released from active duty, others are retired military.  I was only required to forget classified material when I retired, not my basic skills.

You can do what you can, but I will go down to the base PA shop and work as a journalist or as an editor.  Have my towel ready when I stop by the gym. 

[afgeo4]

There's always a budget. Money has to be allocated for working environment, tools, administration of program and extra personnel on the AF side that may be assigned for all this. The issue is that the budget, considering how much work will be done, will be tiny and will make the Pentagon and base commanders very happy.

Sorry, I was only thinking about budgets for reimbursements to CAP members.  I am sure the AF will spend the least amount of money doing whatever they do.  Figuring we may be replacing a deployed Airman, his tools and work environment will already be there.  They won't go invent things for us to do, they will just slot us in a space that was sitting open and wasting $$.  We will actually save AF Money doing their work for them.  Whats cheaper....hire a temporary civilian to work in the gym while Airman snuffy is gone, or get free help from CAP.  If we even did 1/3 of the work the deployed did before he or she left, we just increased productivity and saved $$ for Blue.

Negative... slots of airmen cannot be filled by volunteers. We aren't trained for it, we aren't experienced in it and we don't have a job to lose if we screw up, so responsibility levels may be low.

I suspect they will create positions for us. Positions they've wanted for a long time and positions they would like, but never thought would be possible. That's where the whole Family Readiness things comes in. Normally, airmen volunteer for this shop anyway. It's not a military essential shop and it isn't part of base ops. The airman that used to man the base gym will now be working as a supervisor at the base gym and all we're going to do is change towels and check IDs.

You're speaking for yourself on that point, G.  Some CAP members ARE trained to the standard at which airmen are trained, and beyond.  Some CAP members are recently released from active duty, others are retired military.  I was only required to forget classified material when I retired, not my basic skills.

You can do what you can, but I will go down to the base PA shop and work as a journalist or as an editor.  Have my towel ready when I stop by the gym. 

Only if you promise to take a nice picture of me for the base paper.

[JohnKachenmeister]

I was only kidding.  I am NOT springing for the new uniform.  Golf shirt is as casual as I get.

[SAR-EMT1]

Kach: How goes the Tour Guide Business? You wont be required to change from the flight suit to this new thing. Be glad... lol

[JohnKachenmeister]

Working it this Friday... in my flight suit!

[Wildblueflyer]

I'm all for filling a more active role in the Air Force.  Heck I wish we (CAP) worked much closer with the AF right now!  However, I will not be participating in a program that requires polo shirt and khakis over a legitimate uniform.

CAP should be proud of their heritage and wear blues or corporate uniforms as VSAF.  A new uniform doesn't solve anything.  We should use this opportunity to educate and train ourselves and our AF brethren about CAP. If proper uniform wear is an issue, train our members!  If rank identification is an issue, we can help train our fellow blue-suiters.  The answer is education, not obfuscation.

Please don't create a new "uniform", and please don't take away our rank and the right to wear our current uniform!

[mikeylikey]

^ I am all for a polo and grey pants if that is what others in the job that CAP will be filling in for are wearing on a daily basis.  However, if they wear bdu's then CAP should bear B(B)DU's, if they wear blues, then cap should wear equivalent.

I doubt we will find ourselves anywhere than the gym, lodging office, or kitchen.  So no big deal!

[tjaxe]

I'm all for filling a more active role in the Air Force.  Heck I wish we (CAP) worked much closer with the AF right now!  However, I will not be participating in a program that requires polo shirt and khakis over a legitimate uniform.

CAP should be proud of their heritage and wear blues or corporate uniforms as VSAF.  A new uniform doesn't solve anything.  We should use this opportunity to educate and train ourselves and our AF brethren about CAP. If proper uniform wear is an issue, train our members!  If rank identification is an issue, we can help train our fellow blue-suiters.  The answer is education, not obfuscation.

Please don't create a new "uniform", and please don't take away our rank and the right to wear our current uniform!

Yep. Same here.

[ZigZag911]

The family support aspects of this program are, as Gen. Courter noted, likely to involve junior enlisted personnel; I interpret that to mean senior airman and below.

Even in the rank heavy AF (not a criticism, simply noting that all pilots are officers), junior enlisted, as I understand it, primarily interact with NCOs...and even then, mostly E-5/E-6 (staff or tech sgt).

Dealing with a bunch of middle aged characters sporting oak leaves and ribbons up to the epaulets could be more than slightly intimidating, no matter how often we explain CAP's auxiliary status....visual markers are going to trump vocal explanations every time!

So the question really becomes whether we are doing this to serve or to stroke our own egos?

Since we are civilians, I fail to see where it is insulting to ask (or allow) CAP personnel to wear the same uniform that USAF civilians use in fulfilling their duties.

[mikeylikey]

Since we are civilians, I fail to see where it is insulting to ask (or allow) CAP personnel to wear the same uniform that USAF civilians use in fulfilling their duties.

If in fact we are filling in for AF civilians, then YES wear what they wear.  If we are filling in for a uniformed individual, wear a uniform that is equivalent. 

However, the insult is not what you eluded to, it is the fact that we have a HUGE amount of uniforms we could have selected from, INSTEAD of creating something new.  The insult is saying "those that want to volunteer for this MUST now spend between 45-60 dollars on a pair of khaki pants, and a dress shirt THAT CAN ONLY BE FOUND FROM VANGUARD.  AND YOU MUST PAY A SHIPPING FEE".

That is what pisses me off the most.  One more freaking cost to being a volunteer.  Why don't we eliminate one PAID employee at NHQ, use that money to fund the new uniform, and issue everyone involved with VSAF that uniform for FREE!

COST is the issue!  COST IS THE PROBLEM!

[JohnKachenmeister]

The family support aspects of this program are, as Gen. Courter noted, likely to involve junior enlisted personnel; I interpret that to mean senior airman and below.

Even in the rank heavy AF (not a criticism, simply noting that all pilots are officers), junior enlisted, as I understand it, primarily interact with NCOs...and even then, mostly E-5/E-6 (staff or tech sgt).

Dealing with a bunch of middle aged characters sporting oak leaves and ribbons up to the epaulets could be more than slightly intimidating, no matter how often we explain CAP's auxiliary status....visual markers are going to trump vocal explanations every time!

So the question really becomes whether we are doing this to serve or to stroke our own egos?

Since we are civilians, I fail to see where it is insulting to ask (or allow) CAP personnel to wear the same uniform that USAF civilians use in fulfilling their duties.

Assuming what you say to be correct ZZ (and I am not sure I fully agree with it) your post still fails to justify a whole new (and ugly) uniform.  The golf shirt combo still works to do exactly what you say should be done.

[ZigZag911]

I agree that a new uniform combo is not needed, we could easily use blazer combo or golf shirt with gray slacks....you folks do have a valid point about the expense involved, not to mention adding yet another uniform.

[afgeo4]

It also adds to the point when you consider that this VSAF uniform is not authorized for other CAP activities such as meetings.

[RiverAux]

Technically, it isn't authorized for anything yet since there isn't an change letter authorizing it to be worn.  Actually, there are quite a few technical hoops they haven't jumped through relating to this uniform yet.  But, when they get around to it, I would guess that it will be allowed for other CAP activities as well. 

[afgeo4]

Technically, it isn't authorized for anything yet since there isn't an change letter authorizing it to be worn.  Actually, there are quite a few technical hoops they haven't jumped through relating to this uniform yet.  But, when they get around to it, I would guess that it will be allowed for other CAP activities as well. 

So you think sometime in the near future our members are going to have to face the difficult task of which polo to wear to which meeting? And we're going to have to read posts on that subject? Shoot me now!

As per an earlier post... I will happily do the VSAF job no matter what the uniform will be. I signed up with CAP to do missions for America, specifically the Air Force. I didn't sign up so I could wear a uniform. Whichever uniform we end up with for this, I will wear it. I'm just thankful that I can be of some help to Airmen and/or their families as they cycle through AEF rotations and TDYs. I just wish our upper management would recognize that our membership isn't that rich and reduce the financial burdens put through uniform decisions and the whole Vanguard situation/project.

[jimmydeanno]

As per an earlier post... I will happily do the VSAF job no matter what the uniform will be. I signed up with CAP to do missions for America, specifically the Air Force. I didn't sign up so I could wear a uniform. Whichever uniform we end up with for this, I will wear it. I'm just thankful that I can be of some help to Airmen and/or their families as they cycle through AEF rotations and TDYs.

:clap:  :clap: