Canadian AF and SAR

RiverAux · January 01, 2008, 04:28:32 AM

See this article from the latest issue of SARSCENE for info on the Canadian AF and SAR: http://www.nss.gc.ca/site/ss/magazine/vol16_3/articles/CFAWC_e.asp . Looks like they've got a small team focused on improving SAR. While we of course have the AFRCC, they can't even manage to keep a crash database current, much less put some efforts into improving SAR response & strategy.

Okay, I know things work a lot differently up there, but for pete's sake our AF (or CAP) hasn't come up with a manual for conducting missing airplane searches despite doing them for 65 years.

Short Field · January 01, 2008, 11:38:02 PM

When I attended the AFRCC Inland SAR School last year, the USAF instructors presented search tools based on Canadian data that I had not seen referenced in any CAP manual or training material. According to the instructor, the search tools and associated data should be coming out in a national level manual this year. If you don't want to wait, just attend the Inland SAR School. All the data and tools are provided to the students on a CD.

Short Field · January 01, 2008, 11:39:37 PM

Oh, should I have started off the above post with "WIWATISS"?

RiverAux · January 02, 2008, 12:01:04 AM

Don't get me started on the SMC -- they don't want to let anyone have their slides because they're worried about them being used after they've been updated by AFRCC. Guess they never thought about posting the presentation online and then updating it there as necessary.

Hoser · January 02, 2008, 09:28:10 PM

The Cadaian Search Area Definition as presented in the Inland SAR School has been how I have planned my Air sorties in exercises and it has been right on every time. John Desmarais did a similar study and got similar resultsto the Canadians, although his search area definition is a little different than the CSAD. None the less it parallel the CSAD and is probably just as valid. With the new NavIII software we should be able to make more effective use of it since grids should be definable by coordinates instead of the usual CAP grid definitions on all our gridded sectionals. A vast improvement in my mind

Hoser

Al Sayre · January 02, 2008, 10:29:01 PM

I used the CSAD when I did the planning for the Steinbock search back in June. Worked like a charm!

Short Field · January 04, 2008, 01:48:31 AM

Quote from: RiverAux on January 02, 2008, 12:01:04 AM
Don't get me started on the SMC -- they don't want to let anyone have their slides

I heard it was because someone was starting to use the slides to teach their own version of the course - and not doing a very good job of it as well. The five days in class were well worth the time.

RiverAux · January 04, 2008, 03:49:12 AM

Maybe thats true, but the 2 day AFRCC version I saw couldn't have been done a whole lot worse (70% teacher, 30% material). There was nothing in that class that couldn't have been taught by an experienced CAP IC. Restricting the availability what is supposedly our best training for mission staff to a few courses scattered around the country does nobody any good.

sardak · January 04, 2008, 05:06:35 AM

I hope you guys have figured out you're talking about two different classes, both taught by USAF instructors.

The 2 day AFRCC SMC class. This is intended for new ICs and as a refresher for others. Open to other agencies, but designed for CAP.

The 5 day National SAR School - Inland SAR Planning course. Designed for experienced personnel and non-CAP agencies are encouraged to attend.

As for Canada, they have the National SAR Secretariat which is a civilian government organization which coordinates non-operational aspects (training, standards, etc.) for both civilian and military SAR. There is nothing comparable in the US.

Mike

sardak · January 04, 2008, 05:28:32 AM

Quote from: RiverAux on January 01, 2008, 04:28:32 AM
Okay, I know things work a lot differently up there, but for pete's sake our AF (or CAP) hasn't come up with a manual for conducting missing airplane searches despite doing them for 65 years.

Right, we need an updated version of CAP Manual 50-21, "Mission Coordinator's Training Manual," dated 3 November 1971. It's a 47 page manual in checklist and outline form that details what to do from the first call from the ARRC (Air Rescue and Recovery Center) to closing a mission. It also has information on pre-mission planning.

It was sliced and diced to fit into the various 50/55 series regs and manuals that superseded it, but there is little in the current 60-3 that came from it.

Mike

SAR-EMT1 · January 04, 2008, 07:36:47 AM

Quote from: sardak on January 04, 2008, 05:28:32 AM
Quote from: RiverAux on January 01, 2008, 04:28:32 AM
Okay, I know things work a lot differently up there, but for pete's sake our AF (or CAP) hasn't come up with a manual for conducting missing airplane searches despite doing them for 65 years.
Right, we need an updated version of CAP Manual 50-21, "Mission Coordinator's Training Manual," dated 3 November 1971. It's a 47 page manual in checklist and outline form that details what to do from the first call from the ARRC (Air Rescue and Recovery Center) to closing a mission. It also has information on pre-mission planning.

It was sliced and diced to fit into the various 50/55 series regs and manuals that superseded it, but there is little in the current 60-3 that came from it.

Mike

Never even heard of such a thing existing... Although I am just a GTL and a GBD (T) pion. Any way to get a copy either in paper or online?

Short Field · January 04, 2008, 03:24:37 PM

Quote from: sardak on January 04, 2008, 05:06:35 AM
The 5 day National SAR School - Inland SAR Planning course. Designed for experienced personnel and non-CAP agencies are encouraged to attend.

This course has at least 5 slots reserved for CAP in each class. When I attended, I was the only CAP member and the only pilot in the class. The majority were Deputy Sheriffs. The rest ranged from civilian SAR volunteers to active duty Air Force.

Money and time seem to be the only limiting factors for CAP people to attend the class. Just goes with what CAP stands for - Come And Pay.

RiverAux · January 04, 2008, 11:24:03 PM

QuoteI hope you guys have figured out you're talking about two different classes, both taught by USAF instructors.

Yes, I know.

mikeylikey · January 04, 2008, 11:29:14 PM

Quote from: Short Field on January 04, 2008, 03:24:37 PM
Quote from: sardak on January 04, 2008, 05:06:35 AM
The 5 day National SAR School - Inland SAR Planning course. Designed for experienced personnel and non-CAP agencies are encouraged to attend.
This course has at least 5 slots reserved for CAP in each class. When I attended, I was the only CAP member and the only pilot in the class. The majority were Deputy Sheriffs. The rest ranged from civilian SAR volunteers to active duty Air Force.

Money and time seem to be the only limiting factors for CAP people to attend the class. Just goes with what CAP stands for - Come And Pay.

Perhaps this is an activity CAP NHQ should pay for members to attend. There are many activities NHQ should expense out to members.

Hoser · January 04, 2008, 11:44:57 PM

The Inland SAR School doesn't cost a dime to attend. I was lucky, it was held 15 minutes from my house ==> no lodging or meals to pay for

It is a class that is well worth the out of pocket expense to hole up at Holiday Inn for a week. My guess is other attendees will agree with me there

Hoser