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CAP Talk  |  Operations  |  Emergency Services & Operations  |  Topic: WOW old CAP vid
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♠SARKID♠
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,838
Unit: GLR-WI-204

Timmerman Composite Squadron - WIWG - CAP
« on: December 11, 2007, 03:10:28 AM »

This video turned up in my Google alert for CAP today.  Old old news video from 1989 of CAP back when we still wore the Vietnam style green BDUs.

The ELT tone has changed since then too!

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           Capt. Dan Turkal
..
                WI-204/CC
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mikeylikey
Banned

Posts: 3,755

« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2007, 03:39:23 AM »

Give me a day to post some vids the AF put out on CAP in the early 70's.  They are well.....retro to say the least. 
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What's up monkeys?
sardak
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,215

« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2007, 04:02:29 AM »

The sound of an ELT hasn't changed.  The beacon in that video was having some problems.  What has changed is that the Pointer ELTs and practice beacons have an orange case instead of the black.  And the uniforms have changed...

Mike
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BillB
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,987

« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2007, 06:52:04 AM »

If anyone has those old CAP videos on 16mm film, DVD or video tape, please letr me know. I collect them for a Historical program.
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Gil Robb Wilson # 19
Gil Robb Wilson # 104
Stonewall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 3,936

« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2007, 08:51:18 AM »

That video was awesome.  I love any CAP videos and pics from the 80s and earlier.

Don't those cadets look different than what we see today?  Not their uniforms, that's obvious.  But something about them.  Like we grew'em bigger, stronger, thinner, with more military bearing and better posture.

Love the beard on the Captain too.  Seriously.  It was so much easier back then...it was accepted.
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,337

« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2007, 09:28:54 AM »

The sound of an ELT hasn't changed.  The beacon in that video was having some problems.  What has changed is that the Pointer ELTs and practice beacons have an orange case instead of the black.  And the uniforms have changed...

Mike

We still have plenty of black beacons in service...
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pixelwonk
Alt-F4 pilot
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,099

« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2007, 02:45:20 PM »

Love the beard on the Captain too.  Seriously.  It was so much easier back then...it was accepted.
Just shows ya that Monty's older than he says he is.  :D
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Flying Pig
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 5,043

« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2007, 11:52:51 PM »

Wow!  The good ol' fatigues!  I loved those things!  (Yes, I used to wear them)
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w7sar
Member

Posts: 69
Unit: RMR-UT-007

« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2007, 02:39:17 AM »

I have several old 16mm films of CAP.  I need to find out how to convert them to an mpeg/avi/???? format and then I could donate them to CAP historian.
One is a 20-25 min. black and white movie from the 60s on mission coordinator training. It's pretty informative.  I have a couple of clips used for TV ads, one about 6 minutes features the colorado wing (1990?) and it looks neat.

Hill AFB filmed a RMR encampment in the 80s and produced ONE copy of a 20 minute 16mm film.  I have it too. 

I'm thinking I can show the video on a small glass screen I have and then use a digital recorder??  I think I can pipe the audio into the camera with an attenuator cable.  Has anyone done this?  One camera my wife has for her 4th grade class has a USB output.  I'm thinking I can use some video capture software and maybe get a good copy.  Anyway...will try when I get a chance. 

I have scanned in about 16,000 (really!!) slides/negatives from the 70s, 80s, and 90s (utah and wyoming) and am just now sorting them.  About 30 percent are cap (searches, real crashes, cadets, SAR school at Governors Island, etc.)  Once they're sorted to wing and best description, I'll send a copy to CAP for their history files. 

But any help on the 16mm stuff would be welcome.  I do have a good (working) projector.  I'm looking for someone who has really done it and can point me away from time wasters.

Jerry Wellman
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Jerry Wellman, Col., CAP
HQ CAP Assistant Chief of Communications
jwellman@cap.gov
(C) 801.541.3741
U.S. Air Force Auxiliary
SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 10,506
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2007, 04:17:27 AM »

A projector, a front surface mirror, and a camera are the basic components necessary to do this. An enclosure for the mirror (cardboard box painted black inside, with the right holes in it will do) adds to the quality. Also, the components need to be rigidly mounted to minimize the effects of vibration.

The camera and projector are mounted at a 90 degree angle, and the mirror is 45 degrees from each.

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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
♠SARKID♠
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,838
Unit: GLR-WI-204

Timmerman Composite Squadron - WIWG - CAP
« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2007, 12:19:25 AM »

The sound of an ELT hasn't changed.  The beacon in that video was having some problems.  What has changed is that the Pointer ELTs and practice beacons have an orange case instead of the black.  And the uniforms have changed...

Mike

Well, see, now I'm curios.  I sent a message to the owner of that vid.  She was a former squadron commander in Arkansas Wing.  She says "that is what a real ELT sounds like", but I'm not so sure.
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           Capt. Dan Turkal
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                WI-204/CC
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sardak
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,215

« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2007, 02:56:59 AM »

^^Well, you could send a message to me, and I would reply that isn't what a real ELT sounds like, so what do our statements prove?

You said in your opening statement "The ELT tone has changed since then too!"  and per your latest post you aren't so sure about her statement, either.  So you've probably heard ELTs and practice beacons that don't sound like the one in the video.

Here is the technical requirement for ELTs.

Title 47 Code of Federal Regulations (Telecommunications)
Sec.  87.141  Modulation requirements.
(g) Except that symmetric side bands are not required, the modulation characteristics for ELTs must be in accordance with specifications contained in the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) Technical Standard Order (TSO) Document TSO-C91a titled ``Emergency Locator Transmitter (ELT) Equipment'' dated April 29, 1985. TSO-C91a is incorporated by reference in accordance with 5 U.S.C. 552(a). TSO-C91a may be obtained from the Department of Transportation, Federal Aviation
Administration, Office of Airworthiness, 800 Independence Avenue SW., Washington DC 20591.


That's taken from the current 2006-2007 CFR.  I have the 1988 edition in front of me and it reads exactly the same.  So the ELT requirements have been the same since at least 1985.

TSO C91a references document "Radio Technical Commission for Aeronautics (RTCA) Document No. DO-183, “Minimum Operational Performance Standards for Emergency Locator Transmitters", dated May 13, 1983.

Specifically, the modulation frequency is "an audio signal swept upward or downward by not less than 700 Hz within the range 300 to 1600 Hz.  With a sweep repetition rate of 2 Hz to 4 Hz."

So in theory, the ELT in the video, and the ELTs you hear today must meet the requirements of a document from 1983, which predates the video, and sound basically the same.

In reality, every ELT sounds slightly to significantly different due to the spec tolerances and on a number of operational factors, voltage, damage and antenna being the root causes of most differences.

My CAP DF experience predates not only the video, but also 1983.  My "Vietnam style green BDUs" (fatigues) hang in my closet, and still fit.  :)

Mike
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SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 10,506
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #12 on: December 13, 2007, 03:20:28 AM »

On top of all, that, were they listening to an ELT, or a practice beacon? Are the specs the same?
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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
sarmed1
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 935

« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2007, 03:56:54 PM »

its been my experience when you experiment with creative battery configurations differant from the specified aviation rated battery in a practice beacon , you get changes in the tone, usualy because the battery voltage is higher thant he original specified.....ie its cheaper to put 4 D-cell batteries in line  than buy the replacement.

mk
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Mark Kleibscheidel
TSgt USAFR
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CAP Talk  |  Operations  |  Emergency Services & Operations  |  Topic: WOW old CAP vid
 


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