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Walkman
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« on: October 05, 2007, 02:21:58 AM »

WARNING! Long post.

Everybody is all up in arms because he cheated on a test. I am sure he is not the only CAP Senior member to do something unethical. He just got called out because people didnt like him...

I've been thinking a lot about leadership and ethics and the internet recently.

The past few years have seen a huge number of news stories crying "scandal". Our President and his cabinet have been the focus of many. Congress has had it's share of them as well. It hasn't been limited to the government either. CBS & Dan Rather got black eyes. Close your eyes and throw a dart at the Fortune 500 list. Don't even get me started on the celebrities.

It would be easy to look at the events of our day and conclude that nobody is honest anymore. To take the view that the ethical fabric of our nation is rotting away and that things are worse than ever before.

I wonder if it's a not really matter of perception, though. With a net connection and web browser, I can get up to the second information about any area of the world, about almost any person on earth. And anyone with those same tools can tell the world about anyone else. Have you Googled yourself lately?

How high would JFK's popularity have been if his relationship to Marilyn had been online?

It seems to me that we're not experiencing a radical change in our nation's morals. I think that the radical change is in communication. And it's not just the fact that I can instantly blog about something, it's that it can spread exponentially outside my circle of influence. All it takes is for a few to link to what I said, and my audience multiplies leaps and bounds. Scandal and bad news have always sold newspapers, so factor that in and the consequence is that we're seeing more bad news about more people more frequently than at any other time.

In this new paradigm, I think we need to change the way we look at leadership from both sides of the issue. We're past the day when those in power can count on secrecy. The fact that we're human means we're going to make bad decisions. Leaders need to realize that everyone's watching 24/7 and when they goof up, be honest about it and apologize, make it right. Followers need to remember that we're going to get sandblasted with 30 minute TV analysis of every decision those our leaders make, and filter it accordingly. I'm just an average joe, but I'd hate to have my life televised the way some celebrities do. It would drive me insane, although I shaved my head a long time ago.

We've also gotten bolder. I know I've said things online that I'd never say to someone in person.

This new transparency will be better in the long run, I think. We'll be forced to be a bit more honest about things, because the ability to lie and get away with it is going away. I think the coming generation of leaders will be a different breed.
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Major Carrales
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« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2007, 02:26:02 AM »

A football coach, and scholar, I know told me that the first sign of moral decay and collapse for a Nation is when a Society's sports no longer follows its rules and even the idea of "going the right thing" is considered "corny" and "old fashoned."

Which have we are work in the US?
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O-Rex
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« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2007, 02:44:54 AM »

Years ago in college, a Sociology Professor read an article complaining about the corruption of society's youth: they drank too much, scrawled graffitti on walls, and disrespected authority.

The writing was from Ancient Greece, dated 400 B.C.

Human nature is what it is: the more things change, the more they stay the same....
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IceNine
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« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2007, 02:45:35 AM »

I think we are still as a whole ethical and good natured organization.

But lately there has been an issue of increased visibility for those with sub par ethics. 
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Stonewall
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« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2007, 02:55:26 AM »

I wonder if we'll ever run into this situation:

Lt Col Tentpeg:  Cadet, what is that?  Are you cheating on your AE test?  Explain yourself!

Cadet Corruption:  What? Ummm, who cares?  I mean, the National Commander did it...
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SJFedor
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« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2007, 02:59:43 AM »

Years ago in college, a Sociology Professor read an article complaining about the corruption of society's youth: they drank too much, scrawled graffitti on walls, and disrespected authority.

The writing was from Ancient Greece, dated 400 B.C.

Human nature is what it is: the more things change, the more they stay the same....

Uh huh, and we all know how the Greeks turned out.

We actually had a discussion about this in one of my classes today. Moreso about the shock value of things, and things that, 20 years ago would have been considered obscene and wrong, are now viewed as humorous and the norm.

Kinda interesting to draw a parallel between the Romans and them watching lions eat Christians, and a lot of the sick, twisted things that are on TV now for our entertainment.
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Steven Fedor, NREMT-P
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Major Carrales
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« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2007, 03:01:20 AM »

I wonder if we'll ever run into this situation:

Lt Col Tentpeg:  Cadet, what is that?  Are you cheating on your AE test?  Explain yourself!

Cadet Corruption:  What? Ummm, who cares?  I mean, the National Commander did it...

Uh...?
Lt Col Tentpeg:  And he got thrown out!
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« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2007, 03:06:37 AM »

There probably are seniors who have done at least one unethical thing in the past. I do not agree that TP was called out because no one liked him. I believe he was called out because he was the leader of the organization, and no one would stand for that. I know I wouldn't.
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flyguy06
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« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2007, 03:11:56 AM »

WARNING! Long post.

Everybody is all up in arms because he cheated on a test. I am sure he is not the only CAP Senior member to do something unethical. He just got called out because people didnt like him...

I've been thinking a lot about leadership and ethics and the internet recently.

The past few years have seen a huge number of news stories crying "scandal". Our President and his cabinet have been the focus of many. Congress has had it's share of them as well. It hasn't been limited to the government either. CBS & Dan Rather got black eyes. Close your eyes and throw a dart at the Fortune 500 list. Don't even get me started on the celebrities.

It would be easy to look at the events of our day and conclude that nobody is honest anymore. To take the view that the ethical fabric of our nation is rotting away and that things are worse than ever before.

I wonder if it's a not really matter of perception, though. With a net connection and web browser, I can get up to the second information about any area of the world, about almost any person on earth. And anyone with those same tools can tell the world about anyone else. Have you Googled yourself lately?

How high would JFK's popularity have been if his relationship to Marilyn had been online?

It seems to me that we're not experiencing a radical change in our nation's morals. I think that the radical change is in communication. And it's not just the fact that I can instantly blog about something, it's that it can spread exponentially outside my circle of influence. All it takes is for a few to link to what I said, and my audience multiplies leaps and bounds. Scandal and bad news have always sold newspapers, so factor that in and the consequence is that we're seeing more bad news about more people more frequently than at any other time.

In this new paradigm, I think we need to change the way we look at leadership from both sides of the issue. We're past the day when those in power can count on secrecy. The fact that we're human means we're going to make bad decisions. Leaders need to realize that everyone's watching 24/7 and when they goof up, be honest about it and apologize, make it right. Followers need to remember that we're going to get sandblasted with 30 minute TV analysis of every decision those our leaders make, and filter it accordingly. I'm just an average joe, but I'd hate to have my life televised the way some celebrities do. It would drive me insane, although I shaved my head a long time ago.

We've also gotten bolder. I know I've said things online that I'd never say to someone in person.

This new transparency will be better in the long run, I think. We'll be forced to be a bit more honest about things, because the ability to lie and get away with it is going away. I think the coming generation of leaders will be a different breed.


I agree totally with you. People have been unethical for centuries. Its nothing new. How many Cops are subjective when writing traffic tickets (they dont wrtie other cops or family members or friends) I was a cop and I am guilty of it.

How many people call in sick to work knowing good and well they needed or wanted the day off to go to their kid's school play?

People bought and sold slaves and brought them over to ths country over 100 years ago.

So, dont tell me unthical behavior is something new to this genration. Its just more visible due to the media and the internet. Divorce, homosexuality, cheating on spouses, . They have all been around for years. People just didnt talk about them like they do now

How many of you knew that Gen Dwight Eisenhower had a mistress? She was a Captian and his aide. When FDR died in the Little White House in Warm Springs GA, his mistress was by his side. So, unethical behavior has been around.
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flyguy06
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« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2007, 03:13:37 AM »

There probably are seniors who have done at least one unethical thing in the past. I do not agree that TP was called out because no one liked him. I believe he was called out because he was the leader of the organization, and no one would stand for that. I know I wouldn't.

I would say every Senior member has done something unethical in their lifetime. if you drive 5 miles over the posted speed limit then go and tell cadets to obey the law. Thats unethical.
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Major Carrales
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« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2007, 03:23:42 AM »

Quote
People bought and sold slaves and brought them over to ths country over 100 years ago.

Sometimes, whenI realize I live in a nation that once condoned Slavery, I puzzle on the duality of MAN as a force for both good an evil...

In 1619, at Jamestown Virginia, the HOUSEOF BURGESSES was established...a great stride in FREEDOM and the RIGHTS of MAN to ELECT and MAKE LAWS.  It also was the year the FIRST SLAVES ARRIVED in BRITISH NORTH AMERICA.

The 19th Century saw great strides in the Arts and Sciences, including ENGINNERING.  By the Middle of the 20th Century the same peoples committed the most horrible acts anyone could imgine?

How can the same Science/Medicine that gives us wonderdrugs and instruments of healing also give us Nuclear Weapons and superbugs that can reduce us to extinction?

How can the same medium that can give us Forest Gump, Star Trek and Star Wars also produce pornography?

We are such internal opposites.
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Walkman
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« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2007, 03:25:47 AM »

We actually had a discussion about this in one of my classes today. Moreso about the shock value of things, and things that, 20 years ago would have been considered obscene and wrong, are now viewed as humorous and the norm.

Kinda interesting to draw a parallel between the Romans and them watching lions eat Christians, and a lot of the sick, twisted things that are on TV now for our entertainment.

I'll agree that there are many things that today are acceptable that weren't in previous generaqtions. That pattern has been around forever. I believe that there are certain values and truths that are eternal.

  
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flyguy06
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« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2007, 04:51:14 AM »

Oh. I forgot one other thing . How many people drank underage? yet tell tell youths not to drink.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2007, 05:02:12 AM »

How can the same medium that can give us Forest Gump, Star Trek and Star Wars also produce pornography?

Ethics (and pornography) are in the eye of the beholder - there is no written standard of what is "right" - it is subjective to the situation.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #14 on: October 05, 2007, 05:04:54 AM »

Oh. I forgot one other thing . How many people drank underage? yet tell tell youths not to drink.

That has nothing to do with ethics - that is learning from your mistakes.

Denying children good advice simply because you made the same mistakes would immoral.  If anything
your experience lends credibility.
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flyguy06
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« Reply #15 on: October 05, 2007, 05:14:21 AM »

Oh. I forgot one other thing . How many people drank underage? yet tell tell youths not to drink.

That has nothing to do with ethics - that is learning from your mistakes.

Denying children good advice simply because you made the same mistakes would immoral.  If anything
your experience lends credibility.

You're right. Now that I think about it that was a bad example.
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Flying Pig
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« Reply #16 on: October 05, 2007, 05:37:17 AM »

Sometimes I wonder if its just more appareant because of the technological age we live in.  You screw up, its on Youtube and mailed to everybodies "In Box" within seconds.

O-Rex made a comment about the ancient article.  I read one in school about graffiti and how it had to be stopped.  They were refering to graffiti on castles in Mideval Europe.

Chaplains and Moral Leadership Officers........

Given the recent incident with our National Commander, dont let this opportunity for discussion with your cadets pass you by.

But regarding a cadet using the NC as an excuse, then we tell them "Your right.  And he was discraced and terminated from our ranks."

Like when people see the County Sheriff go to jail for a crime and then say the justice system doesnt work.  No, it does work.....thats why the Sheriff is now an inmate.  it may take  awhile for your day to come, but it eventually does.
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Trouble
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« Reply #17 on: October 05, 2007, 05:42:11 AM »

Yes. it is and it does.

I think, Societies all move toward chaos, then they fall.  To be replaced by a new order , a new society, that in time will move toward chaos and fall.

Society is the force created to fight against the chaos of the Human heart in order to try and protect us from ourselves. But we have a choice to make, to recognize our nature or to ignore it.  It is the Human condition and the Human heart that our societies reflect.  Perhaps it truly all is vanity. 

Because . .

When the base-line, expected standard is no longer good behavior, but instead we begin to reward good behavior as though it was something extra ordinary, then all manor of evil that exists under the sun becomes acceptable behavior.  - Me
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« Reply #18 on: October 05, 2007, 05:51:17 AM »

A football coach, and scholar, I know told me that the first sign of moral decay and collapse for a Nation is when a Society's sports no longer follows its rules and even the idea of "going the right thing" is considered "corny" and "old fashoned."

Which have we are work in the US?

[emphasis mine]

Huh? Care to rephrase that in readable English?
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Walkman
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« Reply #19 on: October 05, 2007, 03:11:40 PM »

Sometimes I wonder if its just more appareant because of the technological age we live in.  You screw up, its on Youtube and mailed to everybodies "In Box" within seconds.

That's my main point. And I really believe that our current concept of leadership is changing.

WIRED magazine ran an article a few months ago about a change in corporate leadership emerging. They called it "radical transparency"

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/15.04/wired40_ceo.html

Even Microsoft has has opened up, allowing engineers to blog and post videos.

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