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Author Topic: Question for CFI's and former and current USAF IP's  (Read 2135 times)
flyguy06
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,195

« on: August 31, 2007, 04:59:04 AM »

Being that I am a new CFI, I wanted to ask veteran CAP IP's this question. I had an idea and wanted to run it across the board.

I workwith another youth aviationorganization wher ewe actually teach them how to fly. One of our instructors there is a former USAF Instructor Pilot. He has the youths doing stand ups similar to UPT and they have to memorize Boldface. I think this is a good idea.First of for safety reasons its good to have the trainees memorize cetain emergency procedures in case they get caught in a jam. Secondly, stand ups gets them in the frame of mind should they choose oneday to go to UPT. they already have an idea of what to expect.

I thought about doing this for our CAP cadets. Now that I am a CFI, I want to become a CAP IP and I want to hold a aviation ground school as wel as teach a few cadets to fly using the CAP planes. What do you guys think of stand ups and Boldface as a way of training our CAP cadets?
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dougsnow
Recruit

Posts: 35

« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2007, 12:42:17 PM »

You never know when an emergency is going to happen - so being prepared is a good thing. 

A friend of mine, in AFROTC way back in the late 80s, ended up with a pilot slot after graduation, and went to ENJJPT - Euro Nato Joint Jet Pilot Training.  Upon graduating college, he had the COMM, MULTI, INST, CFI, CFII, and several hundred hours of TT.

He didnt make it through ENJJPT because he couldnt master standup.

So, yes, it is critical - and a good idea.  I was a ground trainer for a 121 air carrier, and I used the standup method for giving desk checks and the like - and the FAA inspector who was watching the desk checks commented that he thought it was a tremendous idea.   
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SJFedor
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Posts: 1,689

« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2007, 06:12:10 PM »

You bet your six it's a good idea!

When I was a cadet doing flight training, I had to memorize all the boldface and call it all out on command. I still remember it all, and, although I've never had to use it off the top of my head, it's good to know it's still engrained in there.

Not to mention, it'll probably get them kinda excited about it. '

I actually used to put a hat over my eyes (or blindfold) and do the entire before starting engine checklist by memory and feel to get the flow. A lot of muscle memory there. I'd even put my finger on the appropriate gauge after "startup" to make sure I knew exactly where it is (RPM, oil pressure)

And if they're headed for UPT or something like it, it never hurts to start now. But that's the opinion of a former CAP student, not a USAF IP.

Call me in a few years  ;D
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Steven Fedor, NREMT-P
Master Ambulance Driver
Former Capt, MP, MCPE, MO, MS, GTL, and various other 3-and-4 letter combinations
NESA MAS Instructor, 2008-2010 (#479)
SJFedor
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Posts: 1,689

« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2007, 09:28:55 PM »

And, this reminded me of something else, quasi-related, but funny none the less.

Midway Six and I were at "band camp" this year, he actually came up with the idea of printing out all the boldface and taping it to the back doors of all the toilets and above the urinals, so that our pilots and crewmembers could read it, and who knows,  maybe it would sink in.

If I remember, he actually got approval from the MAS commandant, but it kinda faded out because we got so busy with other things.
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Steven Fedor, NREMT-P
Master Ambulance Driver
Former Capt, MP, MCPE, MO, MS, GTL, and various other 3-and-4 letter combinations
NESA MAS Instructor, 2008-2010 (#479)
CadetProgramGuy
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Posts: 1,354

« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2007, 12:51:18 AM »

What's Boldface?
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MIKE
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Posts: 5,461
Unit: LANTAREA

« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2007, 01:03:20 AM »

Emergency procedures.
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Mike Johnston
MidwaySix
Recruit

Posts: 33

CAPblog
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2007, 01:19:47 AM »

Note: Not a CFI. (yet)

Boldface items on the Pilot's Emergency Checklist, are considered to be the memory items that the pilot should have committed to memory so that he can execute them before taking the time to refer to the checklist. (Which effectively turns it into more of a, "have done list.")

I had forgotten about the whole thing until Steve-O brought it up again here.

So I blogged about it:

http://capblog.typepad.com/capblog/2007/08/finding-the-tim.html

You'll find the flyer we cooked up on the blog.

Midway Six

NESA-MAS (lucky to have) Graduate (d)
Newly Minted Mission Pilot
Blogger

CAPblog
Always Vigilant - Never Boring.

P.S. I've seen the Air Force "stand up" training method (very "Stand And Deliver") and I am a fan.

If you can't call out the boldface items when someone asks you about it in a classroom... then what the hell are are you gonna do when the electrical system gets bent some dark night?
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SJFedor
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« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2007, 02:05:35 AM »

Midway Six

NESA-MAS (lucky to have) Graduate (d)
Newly Minted Mission Pilot
Blogger

Psh. You were one of the top graduates! Stop being so modest.
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Steven Fedor, NREMT-P
Master Ambulance Driver
Former Capt, MP, MCPE, MO, MS, GTL, and various other 3-and-4 letter combinations
NESA MAS Instructor, 2008-2010 (#479)
ricecakecm
Member

Posts: 52

« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2007, 02:57:00 AM »

Note: Not a CFI. (yet)
If you can't call out the boldface items when someone asks you about it in a classroom... then what the hell are are you gonna do when the electrical system gets bent some dark night?

I'm gonna pull out my checklist and run it.  :)

I'm an experienced CFI (1300+ hours of dual given).  There were very few emergency procedures that I made a student memorize.  One was an engine failure (the first 3 steps) in a single, one was an engine failure in a twin (the first 6 steps).  Everything else that can go wrong in an airplane tends to be things that there is ample time to pull out a checklist and make sure things are done right, not leaving those items up to memory.  This becomes more important as you start to fly several different kinds of airplanes, and I'm not talking 3 types of Cessnas.

I've had several emergency and abnormal items happen in airplanes over the years.  From engine failures to electrical problems, to pressurization problems.  The only time I really absolutley had to know something from memory was when I had an engine failure in a 172RG at 1500ft AGL.  I did the usual "A, B, C" and as much of the published checklist as there was time for, but that was it.  For every other problem I've had, there was more than enough time to pull out a checklist and run the procedure referencing it.  Some of these problems were in Cessnas, some were in multi-million dollar turbine powered airplanes (which, by the way, the airplane I regularly fly only has a couple of memory items, and it's an almost $4M turbine machine with more systems than a single engine Cessna could ever dream of).


Just my $0.02.
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flyguy06
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,195

« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2007, 12:14:26 AM »

Note: Not a CFI. (yet)
If you can't call out the boldface items when someone asks you about it in a classroom... then what the hell are are you gonna do when the electrical system gets bent some dark night?

I'm gonna pull out my checklist and run it.  :)

I'm an experienced CFI (1300+ hours of dual given).  There were very few emergency procedures that I made a student memorize.  One was an engine failure (the first 3 steps) in a single, one was an engine failure in a twin (the first 6 steps).  Everything else that can go wrong in an airplane tends to be things that there is ample time to pull out a checklist and make sure things are done right, not leaving those items up to memory.  This becomes more important as you start to fly several different kinds of airplanes, and I'm not talking 3 types of Cessnas.

I've had several emergency and abnormal items happen in airplanes over the years.  From engine failures to electrical problems, to pressurization problems.  The only time I really absolutley had to know something from memory was when I had an engine failure in a 172RG at 1500ft AGL.  I did the usual "A, B, C" and as much of the published checklist as there was time for, but that was it.  For every other problem I've had, there was more than enough time to pull out a checklist and run the procedure referencing it.  Some of these problems were in Cessnas, some were in multi-million dollar turbine powered airplanes (which, by the way, the airplane I regularly fly only has a couple of memory items, and it's an almost $4M turbine machine with more systems than a single engine Cessna could ever dream of).


Just my $0.02.

Ok, but we're not talking about a grown man with thousands of hours in many differant types of jets. I am talking about teenagers flying Cessna 172's
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flyguy06
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,195

« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2007, 12:15:35 AM »

Note: Not a CFI. (yet)

Boldface items on the Pilot's Emergency Checklist, are considered to be the memory items that the pilot should have committed to memory so that he can execute them before taking the time to refer to the checklist. (Which effectively turns it into more of a, "have done list.")

I had forgotten about the whole thing until Steve-O brought it up again here.

So I blogged about it:

http://capblog.typepad.com/capblog/2007/08/finding-the-tim.html

You'll find the flyer we cooked up on the blog.

Midway Six

NESA-MAS (lucky to have) Graduate (d)
Newly Minted Mission Pilot
Blogger

CAPblog
Always Vigilant - Never Boring.

P.S. I've seen the Air Force "stand up" training method (very "Stand And Deliver") and I am a fan.

If you can't call out the boldface items when someone asks you about it in a classroom... then what the hell are are you gonna do when the electrical system gets bent some dark night?

Where/When did you see a real live Air Force stand up? I would be interested in seeing this. And why do you keep referring to NESA MAS as "band camp"?
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PHall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 6,470

« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2007, 01:26:29 AM »

Midway Six and I were at "band camp" this year, he actually came up with the idea of printing out all the boldface and taping it to the back doors of all the toilets and above the urinals, so that our pilots and crewmembers could read it, and who knows,  maybe it would sink in.


Pretty common practice, at least in the Air Force. In my unit you could also find the safety newsletter posted above the urinals.

Everybody usually has to visit the "library" a couple times a day. Might as well use the time in a productive manner.
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