January 28, 2021, 01:56:57 pm

101 Card qualification creep

Started by Holding Pattern, September 11, 2020, 09:51:25 pm

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Holding Pattern

So I understand why IS100,200,700,800 are included on the 101 card (NIMS compliance.) But when a holder completes ICS300, those should no longer show up on the card itself and should instead just show ICS300. When ICS400 is completed it should replace ICS300.

Because obviously you can't have ICS300 without the 100/200/700/800 done, and you can't have ICS400 without having done ICS300.

This is more important to consider now that we have other IS courses being added into the mix such as the POD Course (IS26),IS368,IS405,IS505,IS520, and other future IS courses that will be added as discrete options on the 101 card.

It may at this point be prudent to take the non-NIMS IS classes and divest them to a new form (102?) and start keeping a formal certificate log of all National Domestic Preparedness Consortium courses there.

That alone would be a value add for people to join CAP; to have a formal course database with certificates all in one spot!

But if this trend continues... we're gonna need bigger 101 cards.

etodd

Quote from: Holding Pattern on September 11, 2020, 09:51:25 pm... we're gonna need bigger 101 cards.

For what missions? In all the events/sarex/missions/etc I've attended over the years, no one has ever looked at my 101 card to see what quals I have. My job assignment is usually given ahead of time. When are people being qualified at check in?
"Don't try to explain it, just bow your head
Breathe in, breathe out, move on ..."

baronet68

Quote from: Holding Pattern on September 11, 2020, 09:51:25 pmThat alone would be a value add for people to join CAP; to have a formal course database with certificates all in one spot!

Gotta ask, is this really the tipping point for people considering whether or not they'll join CAP? 

I'm trying to imagine the tens of people over the past decade who didn't join because we lacked the digital equivalent of a manila file folder.   :o  :D  ;D
Michael Moore, Maj, CAP
National Recruiting & Retention Manager

Holding Pattern

Quote from: etodd on September 12, 2020, 01:24:17 am
Quote from: Holding Pattern on September 11, 2020, 09:51:25 pm... we're gonna need bigger 101 cards.

For what missions? In all the events/sarex/missions/etc I've attended over the years, no one has ever looked at my 101 card to see what quals I have. My job assignment is usually given ahead of time. When are people being qualified at check in?

Literally every mission I've been on someone has verified I had my 101 card on me, so YMMV?

Holding Pattern

Quote from: baronet68 on September 12, 2020, 02:02:14 am
Quote from: Holding Pattern on September 11, 2020, 09:51:25 pmThat alone would be a value add for people to join CAP; to have a formal course database with certificates all in one spot!

Gotta ask, is this really the tipping point for people considering whether or not they'll join CAP? 

I'm trying to imagine the tens of people over the past decade who didn't join because we lacked the digital equivalent of a manila file folder.   :o  :D  ;D

There are these things in memberships that are known as "value adds."

Most people don't join or leave an org because of just one big thing, but usually because of a bunch of little things.

SarDragon

I don't see a real problem here. How often do we have to actually verify completion of any of these IS courses?
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

Holding Pattern

Quote from: SarDragon on September 12, 2020, 05:13:21 amI don't see a real problem here. How often do we have to actually verify completion of any of these IS courses?

Enough that someone at NHQ just added a stack of them to the card it seems...

baronet68

Quote from: Holding Pattern on September 12, 2020, 04:58:37 am
Quote from: baronet68 on September 12, 2020, 02:02:14 am
Quote from: Holding Pattern on September 11, 2020, 09:51:25 pmThat alone would be a value add for people to join CAP; to have a formal course database with certificates all in one spot!

Gotta ask, is this really the tipping point for people considering whether or not they'll join CAP? 

I'm trying to imagine the tens of people over the past decade who didn't join because we lacked the digital equivalent of a manila file folder.   :o  :D  ;D

There are these things in memberships that are known as "value adds."

Most people don't join or leave an org because of just one big thing, but usually because of a bunch of little things.

Sure, I get the concept of value adds, and I'm not trying to be adversarial, I'm just trying to wrap my head around the value of this particular idea in the grand scheme.
 
If $1.00 represented the total join/renewal value of a member's experience in CAP, I'm trying to understand just how small of a slice I'd need to make out of a penny in order to calculate the "1/xth of 1 cent" value that having "a formal course database with certificates all in one spot" would be worth.  In my experience, it's incalculable because it would be "1/0th of 1 cent" and division by zero is the mathematical equivalent of adding Novichok in your morning coffee.

It would seem to me that things like easy access to quality ES training and experiences, a streamlined process for documenting and approving task completions, open notification/alert processes for qualified personnel to avoid "good ol' boy" networks, better coordination and cooperation between CAP and other agencies, and about a thousand other things would be much more valuable than a certificates database - whether singularly or as part of a collection of value adds.
Michael Moore, Maj, CAP
National Recruiting & Retention Manager

Holding Pattern

September 12, 2020, 08:15:39 am #8 Last Edit: September 12, 2020, 08:47:02 am by Holding Pattern
Quote from: baronet68 on September 12, 2020, 07:45:47 amSure, I get the concept of value adds, and I'm not trying to be adversarial, I'm just trying to wrap my head around the value of this particular idea in the grand scheme.
 
If $1.00 represented the total join/renewal value of a member's experience in CAP, I'm trying to understand just how small of a slice I'd need to make out of a penny in order to calculate the "1/xth of 1 cent" value that having "a formal course database with certificates all in one spot" would be worth.  In my experience, it's incalculable because it would be "1/0th of 1 cent" and division by zero is the mathematical equivalent of adding Novichok in your morning coffee.

It would seem to me that things like easy access to quality ES training and experiences, a streamlined process for documenting and approving task completions, open notification/alert processes for qualified personnel to avoid "good ol' boy" networks, better coordination and cooperation between CAP and other agencies, and about a thousand other things would be much more valuable than a certificates database - whether singularly or as part of a collection of value adds.

My wing is perhaps one of the worst offenders in terms of all of those latter things.

I'd love to see those things. I've offered to build those systems and relationships for my wing over the past three years, but they are clearly uninterested in it and were in fact hostile to those ideas. Probably why they have pre-covid year over year losses of their SM membership.

But rather than engage in the whataboutism on other ideas and being non-adversarial with Novichok  in coffee, perhaps one should look at just how much money orgs pay train.org and similar companies for the exact same thing.

Stonewall

Quote from: Holding Pattern on September 12, 2020, 04:57:30 amLiterally every mission I've been on someone has verified I had my 101 card on me, so YMMV?

I can honestly say that I may have had to show my 101 card at 10-20 missions out of, I don't know, a hundred (could be 75 could be 125, I lost count years ago). And the ones I have definitely had to present my 101, they were the "big ones", ongoing, multiple days/weeks, or high profile.

An overwhelming majority of real missions I've been on did not involve me having to show up to a mission base to sign in. We did it by radio, telephone, and then while on the fly via WMIRS.

Now, when it comes to training exercises, I'd say 100% of the time.