Award of GTM/L badges for completion of NESA or HMRS?

Started by Eclipse, October 27, 2019, 03:01:55 pm

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jeders

Quote from: Fester on October 29, 2019, 06:14:32 am
I do not agree that cadets under 18 can't train for GTL.  The SQTR system is NOT set up that way.


That's actually exactly the way that the SQTR system is set up. You cannot be a trainee for a task until all of the Fam/Prep is completed; you cannot complete Fam/Prep until the prerequisites are completed. Therefore, you cannot be a trainee for GTL until you are 18. To state otherwise is, at this point, willful disregard of the regulations and program design.

QuoteI am aware of countless cadets that have approved and active tasks on the GTL SQTR for numerous items that are Advanced Training Tasks where the CC Approval for Prerequisites is grey AND the cadet is under 18.


As arajca already stated, these tasks are not being completed by GTL trainees but rather are cross-populating from other specialties such as UDF, GTM, MRO, etc. Having these tasks already completed will put the individual ahead of the curve if/when they decide to start GTL training, but it does not make them a GTL trainee.
If you are confident in you abilities and experience, whether someone else is impressed is irrelevant. - Eclipse

Luis R. Ramos

All is dandy and good, but how do you deal with the following task?

Inspecting a vehicle, required for both a GTL and UDF spec.

When cadets w/o CAP drivers license, how do you...

...have them check the back up alarm?

...check steering?

...check braking?

All those involve getting in the van, starting it up, and moving it? 
Squadron Safety Officer
Squadron Communication Officer
Squadron Emergency Services Officer

jeders

Quote from: Luis R. Ramos on October 29, 2019, 02:01:36 pm
All is dandy and good, but how do you deal with the following task?

Inspecting a vehicle, required for both a GTL and UDF spec.

When cadets w/o CAP drivers license, how do you...

...have them check the back up alarm?

...check steering?

...check braking?

All those involve getting in the van, starting it up, and moving it?


Or have them act as observers outside the vehicle while a CAP licensed driver is at the controls.
If you are confident in you abilities and experience, whether someone else is impressed is irrelevant. - Eclipse

Eclipse

Quote from: jeders on October 29, 2019, 02:05:20 pm
Or have them act as observers outside the vehicle while a CAP licensed driver is at the controls.


+1 Give the cadet the checklist and have them call out the items while someone with a CAPDL does the physical checks.



Luis R. Ramos

Having them as observers or calling the items in  a list is how I do it, but it seems to me it is not a complete task if they are not driving. But thanks for the answers.
Squadron Safety Officer
Squadron Communication Officer
Squadron Emergency Services Officer

husker

The relevant regulation requiring prerequisites (including age) to be completed first:

From CAPR 60-3

2-3. Specialty Rating Requirements and Performance Standards. For each specialty rating,
SQTRs have been developed to train and qualify members in stages. The most current versions
of the task guides for all specialties are found on the NHQ CAP/DOS website.

a. First, prerequisites must be completed prior to initiating training requirements.
Michael Long, Lt Col CAP
Deputy Director, National Emergency Services Academy
nesa.cap.gov
mlong (at) nesa.cap.gov

NovemberWhiskey

Quote from: jeders on October 29, 2019, 01:46:19 pm
Quote from: Fester on October 29, 2019, 06:14:32 am
I do not agree that cadets under 18 can't train for GTL.  The SQTR system is NOT set up that way.


That's actually exactly the way that the SQTR system is set up. You cannot be a trainee for a task until all of the Fam/Prep is completed; you cannot complete Fam/Prep until the prerequisites are completed. Therefore, you cannot be a trainee for GTL until you are 18. To state otherwise is, at this point, willful disregard of the regulations and program design.


I think everyone is agreeing vehemently here - except for the definition of 'train for'.

Cadets under 18 can obviously 'make progress towards' GTL, since there are many tasks which can be signed off on other SQTRs without the 'be 18' prerequisite. For example, O-0104 (Setup shelter) is a GTM2 advanced training task that is also a GTL advanced training task.

Equally obviously, they cannot be in supervised trainee status on their CAPF 101 nor be assigned as a trainee GTL on a mission.

Personally, I think confusion is reduced if we restrict "train for" to mean "be qualified as a supervised trainee for"; otherwise we end up saying C/Amn Snuffy is training for IC1 when taking Aircraft Ground Handling (it's an advanced training task).

Gunsotsu

This entire discussion to this point is moot as it is. eServices won't allow you to authorize training specifically for GTL for anyone under 18 anyway. Stop overthinking it.