July 13, 2020, 12:13:04 pm

Is This True?

Started by GalaxyLatte2404, October 26, 2019, 11:43:29 pm

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GalaxyLatte2404

Before I begin, I want whoever is reading to know that I am aware that Cadet Staff should only use "punishments" as a way to help the cadet(s) and I am not suggesting anything other than that. That we are not doing this to hurt or in anyway harm the cadet. It is only to be used as a form of ensuring the cadet is on the right path and to help better the cadet.

In CAP, Cadet Staff are given the responsibility to take care of cadets and deal with whatever problems the squadron is facing head on. This being said, there are instances where some cadets choose to make mistakes or act out of line. This can result in many different things, whether it be disrupting a class, causing information to be misunderstood/missed, or actually endangering a person or mission. There are ways to deal with this kind of behavior such as taking the cadet aside (with another staff member) and using the criticism sandwich to help them understand what they did wrong and how to improve, or having the cadet (shine their boots, perform a facing movement, clean assigned space, etc.) a second time so they can get it right.

Recently I was informed that cadet staff have the right to cadets do things like modified push ups, squats, sit and reaches, or jumping jacks as a form of disciplining a cadet if they choose to do something minor but still inappropriate. (Talking out of line, doing something merely because they were told not too, etc.) As a staff I would never make a cadet do any of the listed above simply because I believe it is wrong. However, I would still like to know whether or not this is condoned for reference. Again, I would not use it, I just want to know if this is true.
-C/MSgt Neal

GZCP31

Quote from: GalaxyLatte2404 on October 26, 2019, 11:43:29 pm
Recently I was informed that cadet staff have the right to cadets do things like modified push ups, squats, sit and reaches, or jumping jacks as a form of disciplining a cadet if they choose to do something minor but still inappropriate. (Talking out of line, doing something merely because they were told not too, etc.) As a staff I would never make a cadet do any of the listed above simply because I believe it is wrong. However, I would still like to know whether or not this is condoned for reference. Again, I would not use it, I just want to know if this is true.

What you were told would be considered a version of Corporal punishment.
Per CAPR 60-1 Section 3.4:
Commanders will respond to cadet misconduct through a system of progressive discipline that is positive,
incremental, and seeks both accountability and behavioral change from the cadet. To discipline is
to teach self-control and that actions have consequences. CAP prohibits corporal punishment, including
the use of exercise as punishment.
Suspension and revocation of flying privileges is implemented separately
from progressive cadet discipline, per CAPR 70-1.
Former OK Wing DCL/DCA Mid 90s, Rejoined after 17 years out.
Capt. Communications-Master
Squadron Deputy Commander, Emergency Services Training Officer,  Professional Development Officer,  Administration Officer, Personnel Officer, Communications Officer and Aerospace Education Officer, Texas Wing DOU

NIN

Quote from: GalaxyLatte2404 on October 26, 2019, 11:43:29 pm
Recently I was informed that cadet staff have the right to cadets do things like modified push ups, squats, sit and reaches, or jumping jacks as a form of disciplining a cadet if they choose to do something minor but still inappropriate. (Talking out of line, doing something merely because they were told not too, etc.) As a staff I would never make a cadet do any of the listed above simply because I believe it is wrong. However, I would still like to know whether or not this is condoned for reference. Again, I would not use it, I just want to know if this is true.


No. Absolutely not. And whoever told you that is completely wrong. GZCP31 has already provided the reference.

If someone has told you this is OK, or they've encouraged you to use these kinds of techniques, or you've seen it used, you need to say something. This kind of behavior out of a cadet or a senior member would be considered a "boundary concern" under CAPR 60-2, esp para 2.6.2 and CAPP 60-15. You should probably have a conversation with your commander about this under CAPR 60-2, para 4.3
Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
Wing Dude
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
Nothing posted on CAPTalk should be considered policy unless otherwise stated
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CAP9907

Quote from: NIN on October 27, 2019, 01:31:28 am
Quote from: GalaxyLatte2404 on October 26, 2019, 11:43:29 pm
Recently I was informed that cadet staff have the right to cadets do things like modified push ups, squats, sit and reaches, or jumping jacks as a form of disciplining a cadet if they choose to do something minor but still inappropriate. (Talking out of line, doing something merely because they were told not too, etc.) As a staff I would never make a cadet do any of the listed above simply because I believe it is wrong. However, I would still like to know whether or not this is condoned for reference. Again, I would not use it, I just want to know if this is true.


No. Absolutely not. And whoever told you that is completely wrong. GZCP31 has already provided the reference.

If someone has told you this is OK, or they've encouraged you to use these kinds of techniques, or you've seen it used, you need to say something. This kind of behavior out of a cadet or a senior member would be considered a "boundary concern" under CAPR 60-2, esp para 2.6.2 and CAPP 60-15. You should probably have a conversation with your commander about this under CAPR 60-2, para 4.3


Agree.. anyone who uses these obsolete techniques to 'discipline' has failed in their duties as a Leader. We are better Leaders than this and correction and education are needed more than punitive actions.

~9907
21 yrs of service

Our Members Code of Conduct can be found here:   http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=13.0

Eclipse

Knock it off and tell those around you as well.
There's no wiggle room or exceptions.

See this new pamphlet: https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/VA_60111_Nov_2019_47B3023EC54B6.pdf

As well as the other new docs in the curriculum.  Training and remediation needs to have corrective
value, not be simply punitive.



TheSkyHornet


GalaxyLatte2404

Thank you to all who answered. I was talking online with other CAP members from across the US and they informed the group that we can use those kinds of "punishments" but they cannot exceed the number of 5. So I did not see this take place or hear of someone doing it. (Thank goodness) I never considered using it, I was just very confused as to why they would say something so wrong, but so specific. Again, I find this form of discipline cruel, and would never use it because I believe it is wrong.
I did check the regs on disciplinary action but it just specified things like physical, verbal, and sexual abuse. I couldn't find something that looked like it matched what the person had said, or went against it, so that is why I asked. I have never seen this take place as an actual punishment, just cadets that are friends and one happens to be higher ranking that mess around and say, "Gimme 20 pushups!" But then they do it together.  LOL

I appreciate everyone who took the time to answer my question, thank you so much for your speedy responses. :)
-C/MSgt Neal

Spam

May I ask who these authorities are, who are lying to you on this topic?


"CAP prohibits corporal punishment, including the use of exercise as punishment"
Could not be more clear than that.
There is no basis for claiming that pushups are not "physical", or "exercise".
I also applaud the fake invention of an arbitrary number, lending a tint of legitimacy to a complete fabrication.


So our lesson here is, never underestimate the capability of adolescents (and adults who act like adolescents) to invent lies to suit their desire to gain power and influence over others.


Cadet, when you see this happen, you need to stop them immediately, and report them for disciplinary action. That's abuse. Whether you do it with them, or they do it with their subordinates, that's abuse. Pushups (or any other physical exercise) should be done as part of an organized PT class - only.

If this is going on, in your unit or nationally, it needs to stop. Unrepentant offenders must be kicked out.


R/s
Spam





SarDragon

That, with no ifs, ands, or buts, will be the final word.
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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret