April 10, 2020, 03:47:59 am

Historical Unit Citations

Started by SARDOC, October 22, 2019, 12:37:36 pm

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SARDOC

Is there a way to get historical Unit Citation information for a charter going back to the Unit's inception?

I've had this request a few times and I've emailed a contact at NHQ but haven't been able to get a response. 

I have a subordinate unit trying to piece together their history and don't know where to start.  Any information would be appreciated.  Thanks

jeders

I'm in the same boat. I've asked at every level, but the only response I ever get back is either "ask national" (never got a response back from them) or "I don't know." Let me know please if you ever find something out.
If you are confident in you abilities and experience, whether someone else is impressed is irrelevant. - Eclipse

MSG Mac

This has been an ongoing problem for many years. National never kept records of either personal or unit awards. Since we now submit awards electronically, that problem should be going away.however it doesn't help with past awards. Hopefully there may be some older members or news letters that have that information. The old CAP NEWS are achieved on line-might be some help.
Michael P. McEleney
Lt Col CAP
MSG USA (Retired)
50 Year Member

SARDOC

Quote from: MSG Mac on October 22, 2019, 04:35:55 pm
This has been an ongoing problem for many years. National never kept records of either personal or unit awards. Since we now submit awards electronically, that problem should be going away.however it doesn't help with past awards. Hopefully there may be some older members or news letters that have that information. The old CAP NEWS are achieved on line-might be some help.


That's a great tip thank you.  This is the feeling that I've gotten.  My issue is that they still don't track Unit Citations on line, at all.   There is still no record and no mechanism to add the Unit Citation to eServices, meaning that the award letter has to be kept in the local personnel record...which it turns out, most units aren't doing because the thought is that it's all kept in eServices and that just isn't the case.

Holding Pattern

October 22, 2019, 05:00:15 pm #4 Last Edit: October 22, 2019, 05:05:16 pm by Holding Pattern
Quote from: SARDOC on October 22, 2019, 04:43:08 pm
Quote from: MSG Mac on October 22, 2019, 04:35:55 pm
This has been an ongoing problem for many years. National never kept records of either personal or unit awards. Since we now submit awards electronically, that problem should be going away.however it doesn't help with past awards. Hopefully there may be some older members or news letters that have that information. The old CAP NEWS are achieved on line-might be some help.


That's a great tip thank you.  This is the feeling that I've gotten.  My issue is that they still don't track Unit Citations on line, at all.   There is still no record and no mechanism to add the Unit Citation to eServices, meaning that the award letter has to be kept in the local personnel record...which it turns out, most units aren't doing because the thought is that it's all kept in eServices and that just isn't the case.


UCAs can be submitted in the online award decoration system. Older ones can be added as a historical award.

(Finding the paperwork... that's hard. Looking for myself as well.)

capmaj

Also, you might check with your Region. They might have retained a record.

Майор Хаткевич

Quote from: Holding Pattern on October 22, 2019, 05:00:15 pm
Quote from: SARDOC on October 22, 2019, 04:43:08 pm
Quote from: MSG Mac on October 22, 2019, 04:35:55 pm
This has been an ongoing problem for many years. National never kept records of either personal or unit awards. Since we now submit awards electronically, that problem should be going away.however it doesn't help with past awards. Hopefully there may be some older members or news letters that have that information. The old CAP NEWS are achieved on line-might be some help.


That's a great tip thank you.  This is the feeling that I've gotten.  My issue is that they still don't track Unit Citations on line, at all.   There is still no record and no mechanism to add the Unit Citation to eServices, meaning that the award letter has to be kept in the local personnel record...which it turns out, most units aren't doing because the thought is that it's all kept in eServices and that just isn't the case.


UCAs can be submitted in the online award decoration system. Older ones can be added as a historical award.

(Finding the paperwork... that's hard. Looking for myself as well.)



As CC I did that. A 2008 wasn't in the system. Problem is, as a unit award, it doesn't reflect anywhere.Lol.

CAP_truth

As a wing personnel officer, I was informed that Unit Citations are awarded to units, and there is no way at the present for adding to individual members records.
Cadet CoP
Wilson

SarDragon

CAWG has been very good about publishing the NHQ PA for unit commendations. When I was working squadron personnel, I generated a supplemental PA with the names of all the squadron members who were eligible for the UCA, and put copies in each record. That avoided any confusion.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

SARDOC

Quote from: SarDragon on November 09, 2019, 05:02:03 am
CAWG has been very good about publishing the NHQ PA for unit commendations. When I was working squadron personnel, I generated a supplemental PA with the names of all the squadron members who were eligible for the UCA, and put copies in each record. That avoided any confusion.


Part of the issue I have is that there are a lot of units that aren't keeping local membership records because they think everything is tracked in eServices and just as in this case, there isn't any mechanism to track UC when a member transfers.  Our entire region was awarded the UC just about two years ago and a member transferred to a wing outside of the region and they were trying to verify it, because he has no local records.

I was able to provide a copy along with his unit transfer history to his new commander to validate

Holding Pattern

Quote from: SARDOC on November 14, 2019, 06:59:41 pm
Quote from: SarDragon on November 09, 2019, 05:02:03 am
CAWG has been very good about publishing the NHQ PA for unit commendations. When I was working squadron personnel, I generated a supplemental PA with the names of all the squadron members who were eligible for the UCA, and put copies in each record. That avoided any confusion.


Part of the issue I have is that there are a lot of units that aren't keeping local membership records because they think everything is tracked in eServices and just as in this case, there isn't any mechanism to track UC when a member transfers.  Our entire region was awarded the UC just about two years ago and a member transferred to a wing outside of the region and they were trying to verify it, because he has no local records.

I was able to provide a copy along with his unit transfer history to his new commander to validate


I feel compelled to mention again that the UCA can in fact be entered into e-Services.

SARDOC

Quote from: Holding Pattern on November 14, 2019, 07:11:29 pm
Quote from: SARDOC on November 14, 2019, 06:59:41 pm
Quote from: SarDragon on November 09, 2019, 05:02:03 am
CAWG has been very good about publishing the NHQ PA for unit commendations. When I was working squadron personnel, I generated a supplemental PA with the names of all the squadron members who were eligible for the UCA, and put copies in each record. That avoided any confusion.


Part of the issue I have is that there are a lot of units that aren't keeping local membership records because they think everything is tracked in eServices and just as in this case, there isn't any mechanism to track UC when a member transfers.  Our entire region was awarded the UC just about two years ago and a member transferred to a wing outside of the region and they were trying to verify it, because he has no local records.

I was able to provide a copy along with his unit transfer history to his new commander to validate


I feel compelled to mention again that the UCA can in fact be entered into e-Services.


It doesn't attach to the individual's membership record.  It's entered via the ECAPF120 all the way through the National Commander approval process.  Once it's approved it disappears from eServices to never be seen again.

Look at your own eServices record/ribbons.  If it show's you personally were included in a Unit Citation please screenshot and send to me, because the Personnel folks at NHQ say that's not a thing and they don't track it for individuals.

Holding Pattern

Quote from: SARDOC on November 14, 2019, 08:05:37 pm
Quote from: Holding Pattern on November 14, 2019, 07:11:29 pm
Quote from: SARDOC on November 14, 2019, 06:59:41 pm
Quote from: SarDragon on November 09, 2019, 05:02:03 am
CAWG has been very good about publishing the NHQ PA for unit commendations. When I was working squadron personnel, I generated a supplemental PA with the names of all the squadron members who were eligible for the UCA, and put copies in each record. That avoided any confusion.


Part of the issue I have is that there are a lot of units that aren't keeping local membership records because they think everything is tracked in eServices and just as in this case, there isn't any mechanism to track UC when a member transfers.  Our entire region was awarded the UC just about two years ago and a member transferred to a wing outside of the region and they were trying to verify it, because he has no local records.

I was able to provide a copy along with his unit transfer history to his new commander to validate


I feel compelled to mention again that the UCA can in fact be entered into e-Services.


It doesn't attach to the individual's membership record.  It's entered via the ECAPF120 all the way through the National Commander approval process.  Once it's approved it disappears from eServices to never be seen again.

Look at your own eServices record/ribbons.  If it show's you personally were included in a Unit Citation please screenshot and send to me, because the Personnel folks at NHQ say that's not a thing and they don't track it for individuals.


I have not entered mine yet as I still can't find my supporting documentation, but I've entered several historical awards of other types for many members, and when done so as a historical award it then populates in the awards section of the "member search" report. I will continue to attempt to find someone local that has documentation of their UCA so that we can enter it and use it as an example.

Eclipse

Quote from: Holding Pattern on November 14, 2019, 07:11:29 pm
I feel compelled to mention again that the UCA can in fact be entered into e-Services.


Where?

It is not an option service ribbons self-submissions area.




Holding Pattern

Quote from: Eclipse on November 14, 2019, 08:25:09 pm
Quote from: Holding Pattern on November 14, 2019, 07:11:29 pm
I feel compelled to mention again that the UCA can in fact be entered into e-Services.


Where?

It is not an option service ribbons self-submissions area.




Check the "historical" box in the electronic 120 submission

Eclipse

November 14, 2019, 09:05:00 pm #15 Last Edit: November 14, 2019, 09:12:22 pm by Eclipse
Ah Bach!

One issue, though, is that it only allows for the entry of charters that exist today, so I could not enter mine, for example.
Presumably that would be something NHQ could enter.




SARDOC

Quote from: Eclipse on November 14, 2019, 09:05:00 pm
Ah Bach!

One issue, though, is that it only allows for the entry of charters that exist today, so I could not enter mine, for example.
Presumably that would be something NHQ could enter.




Yes, this is what you can do for the initial award or to enter in a historical into the system. 

However, it still doesn't attach to the individuals personnel record in eServices.  You still have to take a copy and keep it in the member's local record because it is NOT tracked in eServices for Individuals.

Holding Pattern

Quote from: SARDOC on November 14, 2019, 10:09:52 pm
Quote from: Eclipse on November 14, 2019, 09:05:00 pm
Ah Bach!

One issue, though, is that it only allows for the entry of charters that exist today, so I could not enter mine, for example.
Presumably that would be something NHQ could enter.




Yes, this is what you can do for the initial award or to enter in a historical into the system. 

However, it still doesn't attach to the individuals personnel record in eServices.  You still have to take a copy and keep it in the member's local record because it is NOT tracked in eServices for Individuals.


Exceptional, meritorious, and comm comms show up, those I have personally verified.

SARDOC

Quote from: Holding Pattern on November 14, 2019, 10:56:29 pm
Quote from: SARDOC on November 14, 2019, 10:09:52 pm
Quote from: Eclipse on November 14, 2019, 09:05:00 pm
Ah Bach!

One issue, though, is that it only allows for the entry of charters that exist today, so I could not enter mine, for example.
Presumably that would be something NHQ could enter.




Yes, this is what you can do for the initial award or to enter in a historical into the system. 

However, it still doesn't attach to the individuals personnel record in eServices.  You still have to take a copy and keep it in the member's local record because it is NOT tracked in eServices for Individuals.


Exceptional, meritorious, and comm comms show up, those I have personally verified.


Agreed, those are all individual awards.  There isn't a mechanism to do the same for the Unit Citation.  It's not unusual for an Entire Region to get an Unit citation.  they know they aren't going to manually enter those into everyone's eServices so they just opted to not track it.

NHQ recommends printing a copy of the citation and placing it in the member's CAPR required local membership record.  When the member transfers that record is supposed to go with them.  But nobody really does it.

Back when I was a squadron Personnel officer I tried to get a member's record that transferred to us.  You'd think it was an act of Congress, I was getting stonewalled, I even offered to pay for them to ship to me.  They kept making excuses...I think because they weren't really keeping the local records as required.

Holding Pattern

Quote from: SARDOC on November 14, 2019, 11:37:21 pm
Quote from: Holding Pattern on November 14, 2019, 10:56:29 pm
Quote from: SARDOC on November 14, 2019, 10:09:52 pm
Quote from: Eclipse on November 14, 2019, 09:05:00 pm
Ah Bach!

One issue, though, is that it only allows for the entry of charters that exist today, so I could not enter mine, for example.
Presumably that would be something NHQ could enter.




Yes, this is what you can do for the initial award or to enter in a historical into the system. 

However, it still doesn't attach to the individuals personnel record in eServices.  You still have to take a copy and keep it in the member's local record because it is NOT tracked in eServices for Individuals.


Exceptional, meritorious, and comm comms show up, those I have personally verified.


Agreed, those are all individual awards.  There isn't a mechanism to do the same for the Unit Citation.  It's not unusual for an Entire Region to get an Unit citation.  they know they aren't going to manually enter those into everyone's eServices so they just opted to not track it.

NHQ recommends printing a copy of the citation and placing it in the member's CAPR required local membership record.  When the member transfers that record is supposed to go with them.  But nobody really does it.

Back when I was a squadron Personnel officer I tried to get a member's record that transferred to us.  You'd think it was an act of Congress, I was getting stonewalled, I even offered to pay for them to ship to me.  They kept making excuses...I think because they weren't really keeping the local records as required.


That unfortunately makes sense.

Humbug.

You'd think that if they could figure out how to get the AFOEA onto our records en masse they could figure that out for smaller groups...