Task O-0401 Work With Canine Search Teams

Started by Stonewall, August 19, 2019, 01:27:00 am

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Stonewall

What's everyone's take on this task?

Is it required that GTM-1 Trainees work/train with a SAR Dog and Handler in person?

Or is this something that can be signed off after a thorough review and discussion in a classroom setting by a qualified GTM-1 (SET) and then the trainee get a "PASS" in all four of the performance measures?  The performance measures don't actually consist of performing a task, but verbally describing deployment of the three types of search dogs and the fourth is listing the five rules of working with a dog team.

No where in the task does it state that you must physically train with an actual canine team.

In the past year I haven't been able to get GTM-1 complete because I can't link up with a canine team.  Last October I drove over an hour to link up with a canine search team that didn't show. This past weekend I drove 2 1/2 hours to another wing and the canine team didn't make it to the mission base I was operating out of.

I have been GTL and GBD for 2 1/2 decades, which means I have been qualified in this and all tasks before. I have personally worked with SAR Dog teams in training and on real searches countless times.

What's everyone's take?

Eclipse

Quote from: Stonewall on August 19, 2019, 01:27:00 am
What's everyone's take on this task?


"Stay away from the dogs"

Quote from: Stonewall on August 19, 2019, 01:27:00 am
Is it required that GTM-1 Trainees work/train with a SAR Dog and Handler in person?


One of a number of tasks that be completed with a simple discussion.

All 4 tasks are "Describe" or "List".



Stonewall

Quote from: Eclipse on August 19, 2019, 01:31:32 am
One of a number of tasks that be completed with a simple discussion.

All 4 tasks are "Describe" or "List".


I agree. I'm learning there are people who seem to simply not want others to "get by" without proving something that doesn't need to be proven. The more I dive into the weeds on some of this stuff, the more I'm getting pretty P'd off that I've been held back for no reason at all.

arajca

Well, several years ago, I created a GTM3 written test for all the List/Describe (most)/Identify tasks. Group ES said couldn't use it as EVERY SINGLE TASK MUST be completed and signed off in the field. Wing ES (a long time acquaintance) had a different view -  Test is fine as long as 1) a qualified GTM3 SET administered and graded it and 2) retesting was available for incorrect answers, same as in person tests.

It was used for a couple GTM3 trainings as it left more time for the performance tasks.

I don't think it has been used recently though.

Eclipse

Quote from: Stonewall on August 19, 2019, 01:36:36 am
Quote from: Eclipse on August 19, 2019, 01:31:32 am
One of a number of tasks that be completed with a simple discussion.

All 4 tasks are "Describe" or "List".


I agree. I'm learning there are people who seem to simply not want others to "get by" without proving something that doesn't need to be proven. The more I dive into the weeds on some of this stuff, the more I'm getting pretty P'd off that I've been held back for no reason at all.


As well you should - I can't count the number of conversations I've had over the years with members being held
back from GTM because "no one can find a dog team" or "where are we going to get a helicopter?", etc., etc.

It's all there in the text, and the vast majority of GTM can be accomplished in one season on meeting nights or
small weekend activities, including the mission sorties.



etodd

SQTR for sUAS MP has an area asking to demonstrate an ELT search with the drone. Yet CAP does not own a Becker type device for a drone yet, and may never.

So we have a 2 minute discussion of the basics of a Becker, and the box gets checked as "verbal".   LOL

Its CAP.  It is, what it is.
MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO - ESO

sUAS MP - sUAS Instructor - sUAS Check Pilot

CAP9907

Quote from: etodd on August 19, 2019, 03:07:17 am
SQTR for sUAS MP has an area asking to demonstrate an ELT search with the drone. Yet CAP does not own a Becker type device for a drone yet, and may never.

So we have a 2 minute discussion of the basics of a Becker, and the box gets checked as "verbal".   LOL

Its CAP.  It is, what it is.


Task O-0401 clearly lists 'describe' in the action portion of the task guide. Since there is no published guidance for 'demonstrate an ELT search with a drone', I suppose we will take you at your word that you all mean 'demonstrate' (an action) to mean 'talk about'. You are not helping your cause here: words have meanings.

~9907
21 yrs of service

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umpirecali

Quote from: Stonewall on August 19, 2019, 01:27:00 am
What's everyone's take on this task?

Is it required that GTM-1 Trainees work/train with a SAR Dog and Handler in person?

Or is this something that can be signed off after a thorough review and discussion in a classroom setting by a qualified GTM-1 (SET) and then the trainee get a "PASS" in all four of the performance measures?  The performance measures don't actually consist of performing a task, but verbally describing deployment of the three types of search dogs and the fourth is listing the five rules of working with a dog team.

No where in the task does it state that you must physically train with an actual canine team.

In the past year I haven't been able to get GTM-1 complete because I can't link up with a canine team.  Last October I drove over an hour to link up with a canine search team that didn't show. This past weekend I drove 2 1/2 hours to another wing and the canine team didn't make it to the mission base I was operating out of.

I have been GTL and GBD for 2 1/2 decades, which means I have been qualified in this and all tasks before. I have personally worked with SAR Dog teams in training and on real searches countless times.

What's everyone's take?


I am surprised you are having trouble getting to a K9 team.  In my experience K9 teams are fanatical and train almost every weekend.  Here in VA, there are 6 SAR K9 groups and they are always eager to cross train or do a CAP demo.  I applaud your effort as working on a dog team, seeing them do a demo or runaway or hear them do a lecture on scent theory greatly enriches your knowledge as a searcher.  If your K9 resources are far away, maybe get them to do a skype call or ask them narrate a short video.  If there is one thing these groups love, it is taking videos with their doggos.
Capt Chris Cali, CAP
Deputy Commander for Seniors
Safety Officer
Emergency Service Training Officer