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CAP Talk  |  Operations  |  Aviation & Flying Activities  |  Topic: Cadet Solo flight outside of CAP
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McDaddy2003
Recruit

Posts: 23

« on: July 24, 2019, 02:17:52 PM »

We had a cadet fly her first solo in a powered aircraft yesterday. This was done outside of CAP by a non CAP Instructor and aircraft. That being said, would she be qualified to wear solo wings by bringing proper documentation? I’ve read she needs an endorsement by a CAP Instructor Pilot.

Any guidance is appreciated. I’ve already contacted CadetWings to get guidance on enrollment.

THX
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time With Silver Clasp
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Posts: 30,145

« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2019, 03:50:45 PM »

Needs to have a CAP checkride.
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PHall
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Posts: 6,624

« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2019, 05:02:05 PM »

Needs to have a CAP checkride.

Reg cite please.
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NovemberWhiskey
Member

Posts: 64
Unit: NER-NY-301

« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2019, 05:25:21 PM »

She needs to be endorsed by a CAP Instructor Pilot for the make and model IAW CAPR 70-1 para 4.1.1.1

You don’t need to have solo’d to be qualified to wear the wings; technically you just need to be qualified to do so.
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Spam
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,292
Unit: GA-001

« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2019, 05:30:52 PM »


I've pasted the CAP regulatory requirements below (the food chain), as I could find them. My going in thoughts were that the decoration (wings) shouldn't be a barrier to the decoration (the wings) but the cadet would need a subsequent CAP check ride to fly corporate aircraft. My unfortunate conclusion however, is that the R70-1 "terms" section clearly attaches the CAP aircraft requirement to the definition.

I would say that yes, the cadet needs a CAP check ride to meet the definition of CAP solo pilot, in order to award the CAP Solo Wings.

V/r
Spam


CAP REGULATION 35-6
23 JANUARY 2015
Personnel Procedures
OPERATIONS RATINGS, AWARDS AND BADGES
1. Aeronautical Ratings and Requirements. Requirements for CAP-member aeronautical ratings are:
a. CAP Solo Pilot Rating: Be qualified in accordance with (IAW) CAPR 60-1.


https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/members/publications/indexes-regulations-and-manuals-1700
"R70-1 4 Dec 17 CAP Flight Management (replaces R60-1) includes ICL 18-05"


CAPR 70-1 ATTACHMENT 2 4 DECEMBER 2017
4.1. Basic CAP Pilot Qualifications
4.1.1. CAP Solo Pilot
4.1.1.1. To operate as a CAP Solo Pilot, the member must possess a current student pilot certificate, or a rated pilot certificate, with appropriate solo endorsements from a CAP Instructor Pilot for the make and model aircraft flown.

Terms. (p. 35)
CAP Solo Pilot – A CAP member who holds either a student pilot certificate or is a rated pilot, is endorsed by a CAP Instructor Pilot, and is authorized in accordance with this regulation to perform solo flights in CAP aircraft.

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NovemberWhiskey
Member

Posts: 64
Unit: NER-NY-301

« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2019, 05:38:55 PM »

I would say that yes, the cadet needs a CAP check ride to meet the definition of CAP solo pilot, in order to award the CAP Solo Wings.

What precisely do you mean by a “CAP check ride”? If you mean that one needs to get an endorsement IAW FAR 61.87 from a CAP instructor pilot then I agree. Otherwise, what did you have in mind?
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Spam
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

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« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2019, 06:07:27 PM »

I would say that yes, the cadet needs a CAP check ride to meet the definition of CAP solo pilot, in order to award the CAP Solo Wings.

What precisely do you mean by a “CAP check ride”? If you mean that one needs to get an endorsement IAW FAR 61.87 from a CAP instructor pilot then I agree. Otherwise, what did you have in mind?

Sorry, no, you're correct. I misspoke. Endorsement for the wings.

Cheers
Spam
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Cliff_Chambliss
Seasoned Member

Posts: 418

« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2019, 04:29:06 PM »

OK, is there a specific CAP endorsement for this?  Or are we looking at an FAA endorsement IAW AC61-65H?  If CAP is looking for an FAA endorsement and the FAA endorsements all carry the words ...I Certify, I determine the applicant proficient, etc?  then its very simple.  No checkride=no endorsement. 
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NovemberWhiskey
Member

Posts: 64
Unit: NER-NY-301

« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2019, 11:36:33 PM »

OK, is there a specific CAP endorsement for this?
No; it's a standard FAR 61.87 endorsement. The only CAP-specific aspect is that it must be from a CAP Instructor Pilot.
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farsightusf2017
Recruit

Posts: 10

« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2019, 11:14:43 PM »

The key thing to take away is that they aren’t “solo wings” they are CAP solo pilot wings
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mdickinson
Seasoned Member

Posts: 209
Unit: NER-CT-022

« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2019, 05:18:38 PM »

Needs to have a CAP checkride.

Absolutely not. Boy, am I surprised to see this misinformation being spread on CAP Talk. Suggestion: if you aren't sure of the answer, don't answer!

As a CAP instructor pilot (CFI) who has signed off half a dozen cadets for solo over the last 21 years, I can tell you what is required, and it is not a checkride.

In CAP we use the term "checkride" to refer to four different things:
- an annual CAPF5 checkride (required once a year of all CAP pilots)
- an abbreviated CAPF5 checkride (taken by a qualified CAP who already has a current annual CAPF5 checkride, usually for the purpose of adding an additional aircraft model or adding IFR privileges)
- a commander-required CAPF5 checkride (see 70-1; any commander may require a pilot under their command to take a checkride)
- a CAPF91 checkride (required once every 2 years of all CAP SAR/DR mission pilots)

None of the above is required for a pilot to solo, or for a pilot earn CAP solo pilot wings.

There are four ways that someone can solo a CAP aircraft. Each of these requires an appropriate log book endorsement (a.k.a. "sign off") from a qualified instructor.
- a cadet can be signed off by a CAP airplane IP or CP to solo an airplane
- a cadet can be signed off by a CAP glider IP or CP to solo a glider
- a cadet can be signed off by a CAP balloon IP or CP to solo a balloon
- a senior member can be signed off by a CAP glider IP or CP to solo a glider.

Any of these four endorsements satisfies the requirements of CAPR 70-1 for the rating of "CAP solo pilot."

None of these four endorsements requires a checkride.

Each of these four endorsements does require that the instructor pilot (a current CFI; or in the case of balloons, a commercial pilot with balloon rating) has flown with the pilot and determined that the pilot is competent to solo.
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time With Silver Clasp
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« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2019, 05:44:46 PM »

So...

No "CAP Checkride", but the CAP endorser has to fly with the pilot in question.

It's a nuance of the terminology, but functionally the same thing, especially in the context of the original question.

And wouldn't this person still need a F5 to actually fly alone (though in this case the question is just about the badge).
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Blanding
Member

Posts: 50
Unit: MER-VA-102

« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2019, 06:38:36 PM »

...
And wouldn't this person still need a F5 to actually fly alone (though in this case the question is just about the badge).

A CAP Solo Pilot doesn't require a Form 5 to fly solo, right?

Ref:

4.1.1.1. To operate as a CAP Solo Pilot, the member must possess a current student pilot
certificate, or a rated pilot certificate, with appropriate solo endorsements from a CAP Instructor Pilot for
the make and model aircraft flown.

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Nor'easter
Seasoned Member

Posts: 413

« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2019, 04:24:57 AM »

...
And wouldn't this person still need a F5 to actually fly alone (though in this case the question is just about the badge).

A CAP Solo Pilot doesn't require a Form 5 to fly solo, right?

Ref:

4.1.1.1. To operate as a CAP Solo Pilot, the member must possess a current student pilot
certificate, or a rated pilot certificate, with appropriate solo endorsements from a CAP Instructor Pilot for
the make and model aircraft flown.

That is the correct interpretation - no checkride required to exercise the rating of "CAP Solo Pilot".
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