By my command

Started by Picy3, June 18, 2019, 12:27:55 am

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Kayll'b

Quote from: Mitchell 1969 on June 19, 2019, 03:59:04 am
Quote from: Kayll'b on June 19, 2019, 03:23:09 am
Quote from: lordmonar on June 18, 2019, 06:21:17 am

Since we don't use "by your command" very much (if at all)...I think I have maybe used it as a training aid all of five times in my 15 or so years in CAP. It is really just one of those things that I don't think we get to our pants into a wad about.

YMMV of course.


Really? At my squadron we use it multiple times every meeting.


Why? It isn't real. It's in the same category as "Hey diddle-diddle, file from the middle."


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Because we were not aware of that.
C/1st Lt

Mitchell # 69847

Squadron Cadet Leadership officer

GCAC Recorder

Eclipse

Once informed, people interested in doing things
properly adjust and move on.



lordmonar

Quote from: Mitchell 1969 on June 20, 2019, 03:11:04 pm
Quote from: lordmonar on June 20, 2019, 06:22:37 am
AFman 36.2203

"2.6.  Mass Commands. 2.6.1.  Mass commands help develop confidence, self-reliance, assertiveness, and enthusiasm by making the individual recall, give, and execute the proper commands.  Mass commands are usually confined to simple movements with short preparatory commands and commands of execution executed simultaneously by all elements of a unit. 2.6.2.  Each person is required to give commands in unison with others as if that person alone were giving commands to the entire element.  The volume of the combined voices encourages every person to perform the movement with snap and precision. 2.6.3.  When the instructor wants to conduct drill by mass commands, the command is AT YOUR COMMAND.  For each exercise and cadence drill, the instructor announces the movement to be executed and commands the element COMMAND.  Personnel then give the commands and execute them in unison. 2.6.4.  The following are examples of mass commands: Instructor:  AT YOUR COMMAND, Call the Flight to Attention, COMMAND.  Mass:  Flight, ATTENTION.  Instructor:  Have the Flight Stand at Parade Rest, COMMAND.  Mass:  Parade, REST.  Instructor:  March the Flight Forward, COMMAND.  Mass:  Forward, MARCH.  Instructor:  Halt the Flight, COMMAND.  Mass:  Flight, HALT 2.6.5.  When desiring to end mass commands, the instructor commands AT MY COMMAND.  "

At My Command is the correct way of saying.

Bottom line is.   

"By My Command" is not a real command.   
Is it a way of showing who is actually in command?  Sure.   Much like pilots saying "your airplane" "My Airplane" when they are passing over responsiblity.

Is it "wrong" to say "By my command"?   Sure if you are a 100% stickler for the regs and manuals.   

Like I said before.   By My Command is not really something that get's my nickers in a wad.

YMMV.


When It comes to drill and ceremonies, yes, I am a 100% stickler. Mostly because I have seen plenty of Squadron level inventions which leech into common use because nobody quashed them when they first emerged.

How many times have you heard somebody in charge of a flight say "belay that" instead of "as you were" to retract a preparatory command? How many times have you heard the command "March time, March?" How about "telling a column of files to go forward, when the intent was to have them do a column left, resulting in "Column of files from the left, forward, into the building, March?" All sloppy, all home-grown.

At any rate, stuff used according to standards should meet those standards. Bogus home-made commands and nonsensical commands deserve knicker wadding when first encountered so as to stop them from spreading, as, once spread, they are hard to undo.

The topic of this discussion is a command which does not exist. I believe the only correct response is to answer, correctly, that it does not exist and therefore should not be used.


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Well....there is a difference between doing it wrong.....and using a command that is not covered by the prescribed manual.   But like I said.  YMMV.
PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

Mitchell 1969

Quote from: lordmonar on June 21, 2019, 05:11:21 am
Quote from: Mitchell 1969 on June 20, 2019, 03:11:04 pm
Quote from: lordmonar on June 20, 2019, 06:22:37 am
AFman 36.2203

"2.6.  Mass Commands. 2.6.1.  Mass commands help develop confidence, self-reliance, assertiveness, and enthusiasm by making the individual recall, give, and execute the proper commands.  Mass commands are usually confined to simple movements with short preparatory commands and commands of execution executed simultaneously by all elements of a unit. 2.6.2.  Each person is required to give commands in unison with others as if that person alone were giving commands to the entire element.  The volume of the combined voices encourages every person to perform the movement with snap and precision. 2.6.3.  When the instructor wants to conduct drill by mass commands, the command is AT YOUR COMMAND.  For each exercise and cadence drill, the instructor announces the movement to be executed and commands the element COMMAND.  Personnel then give the commands and execute them in unison. 2.6.4.  The following are examples of mass commands: Instructor:  AT YOUR COMMAND, Call the Flight to Attention, COMMAND.  Mass:  Flight, ATTENTION.  Instructor:  Have the Flight Stand at Parade Rest, COMMAND.  Mass:  Parade, REST.  Instructor:  March the Flight Forward, COMMAND.  Mass:  Forward, MARCH.  Instructor:  Halt the Flight, COMMAND.  Mass:  Flight, HALT 2.6.5.  When desiring to end mass commands, the instructor commands AT MY COMMAND.  "

At My Command is the correct way of saying.

Bottom line is.   

"By My Command" is not a real command.   
Is it a way of showing who is actually in command?  Sure.   Much like pilots saying "your airplane" "My Airplane" when they are passing over responsiblity.

Is it "wrong" to say "By my command"?   Sure if you are a 100% stickler for the regs and manuals.   

Like I said before.   By My Command is not really something that get's my nickers in a wad.

YMMV.


When It comes to drill and ceremonies, yes, I am a 100% stickler. Mostly because I have seen plenty of Squadron level inventions which leech into common use because nobody quashed them when they first emerged.

How many times have you heard somebody in charge of a flight say "belay that" instead of "as you were" to retract a preparatory command? How many times have you heard the command "March time, March?" How about "telling a column of files to go forward, when the intent was to have them do a column left, resulting in "Column of files from the left, forward, into the building, March?" All sloppy, all home-grown.

At any rate, stuff used according to standards should meet those standards. Bogus home-made commands and nonsensical commands deserve knicker wadding when first encountered so as to stop them from spreading, as, once spread, they are hard to undo.

The topic of this discussion is a command which does not exist. I believe the only correct response is to answer, correctly, that it does not exist and therefore should not be used.


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Well....there is a difference between doing it wrong.....and using a command that is not covered by the prescribed manual.   But like I said.  YMMV.


If it's wrong, and not in the book, then what is the difference? The easy route is also the correct route - don't use it, right? There really is t any allowance for varying mileage - there is no way to do a wrong thing the right way!


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_________________
Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.

SarDragon

Let us see - Q was asked, Q was thoroughly discussed, the usual snarky comments were made, thankfully in moderation, and an almost consensus (majority opinion?) was reached.

Sayonara.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret