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Spam
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,241
Unit: GA-001

« on: June 17, 2019, 03:53:34 PM »




For those of us who still think that CAP should still be emphasizing DDR for cadets, a safety related topic.


https://m.sfgate.com/news/article/In-first-states-to-legalize-pot-teen-use-14001768.php


Vr
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Fester
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« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2019, 09:33:56 PM »

They lost my interest at "hooked." 

Marijuana is not an addictive substance.
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1stLt, CAP
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Holding Pattern
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« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2019, 10:02:57 PM »

They lost my interest at "hooked." 

Marijuana is not an addictive substance.

https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/marijuana/marijuana-addictive
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Eclipse
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« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2019, 10:04:06 PM »

Marijuana is not an addictive substance.

Unfortunately a number of studies disagree.

https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/marijuana/marijuana-addictive

https://cpha.ca/sites/default/files/uploads/resources/cannabis/evidence-brief-addictive-e.pdf

These are just two of a lot of studies you can find with a quick Google.

One issue is how "addiction" is defined, "dependence" vs. "addiction", psychological vs. physiological addiction,
and that the majority of studies indicate that developing adolescents are especially vulnerable to long term cognitive impairment
with sustained use.
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Holding Pattern
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« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2019, 10:06:59 PM »

It's also important to note that a lot of historical studies regarding the non-addictiveness of THC aren't meaningful in today's age of highly concentrated THC vs prior years.
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OldGuy
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« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2019, 05:50:12 AM »

1 - Moral leadership / Character Development

We ought to be teaching our cadets the why of being sober, not stoned because it is the right choice.

2 - Aerospace Education

We ought to be teaching our cadets that at least eight hours between any intoxicant and a pilot are a minimum, because anything less is deadly.

3 - Physical Education

We ought to be teaching our cadets that drugs and alcohol are not good for our bodies.

4 - Leadership

Great leaders are sober. Period.
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OldGuy
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« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2019, 05:51:33 AM »

Marijuana is not an addictive substance.
Not true.

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/marijuana-addiction-rare-but-real-072014#1
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LSThiker
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« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2019, 02:37:22 PM »

Interestingly, a new study published in Nature Neuroscience the other day lends evidence that cannabis addiction is linked to CHRNA2 gene.  A genetic component was already proposed in 2016, but they linked different genetic variants.  The 2019 had a better power with clearer results.

The actual 2019 study:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41593-019-0416-1

The actual 2016 study:
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/fullarticle/2504223

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CFToaster
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« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2019, 07:51:34 PM »

We ought to be teaching our cadets the why of being sober, not stoned because it is the right choice.
[citation needed]


We ought to be teaching our cadets that drugs and alcohol are not good for our bodies.
Intoxicants used to excess are certain deleterious to one's health, but I guarantee you that working night shift and choosing a stressful career have taken more years off of my life than the occasional indulgence. Yet we don't counsel our cadets about those kind of life choices...

Great leaders are sober. Period.
Correct. If you use intoxicants off-duty you will be remanded to be a mediocre leader such as George Washington, Elon Musk, Bill Clinton, Winston Churchill or Barack Obama.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2019, 08:27:02 PM »

Intoxicant use, period, is detrimental to health, thus the root of the word from the Latin "toxicum".

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/intoxicates
"For those who think that alcohol and drugs qualify as poisons, the history of intoxicate offers some etymological evidence to bolster your argument. Intoxicate traces back to toxicum, the Latin word for "poison" - and the earliest meaning of intoxicate was just that: "to poison." This sense is now extremely rare, and we currently talk about such harmless things as flowers and perfume having the power to intoxicate. Toxicum turns up in the etymologies of a number of other English words including toxic ("poisonous"), intoxicant ("something that intoxicates") and detoxify ("to remove a poison from"), as well as a number of the names for various poisons themselves."

The fact that you don't die immediately from ingestion, or that "one with dinner takes the edge off" doesn't change the
fact that the person ingesting is being impaired.   From there it's just a matter of degrees.

And as to the referenced individuals, the fact that they imbibed and were still successful draws a line which is irrelevant
and certainly doesn't justify the use of alcohol.

Adult are free to do what they will, despite the potential detrimental effects to their health, this conversation is about adolescents.
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abdsp51
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« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2019, 08:29:07 PM »

Considering CAP has a zero tolerance policy on drug use this should be locked, due to adult leaders advocating the use of a still largely illegal substance.
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Spam
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« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2019, 08:37:25 PM »


Sadly - concur.
Which is why I prefaced my original the way I did... "for those of us who still think"

V/r
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TheSkyHornet
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« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2019, 08:38:13 PM »

So is the intent to discuss the dangers of using/abusing drugs (to include marijuana, and perhaps even alcohol) to present responsible behavior, or to convince them never to do it ever?

When I would do DDR forums, I would talk about how legal implications can affect future career opportunities, whether it's scholastic applications, aviation jobs, or military. It wasn't about "never ever ever ever ever do it." I think we can already assume that many people, including cadets, will try marijuana or drink underage.

But there is a difference in discussing the topic of responsibility versus "Just say no!" Is it our role as seniors to tell people not to ever smoke or drink or take pain medications, or is it to present the consequences of abuse and criminal implications that can affect your future as a young person and maybe get involved in things you can't take back?

Walk into a room of cadets and tell them you never drank underage, ever. Or tell them that you never took a puff from a cigarette (even an e-cig/vape). Tell them you never drank even when you were 21, or tried it.

I can tell cadets that I never smoked weed in my life. I haven't. And when I get asked why, my answer is that I've been flying airplanes since I was 15 and I never wanted to ever jeopardize that. I pursued a military career as a teenager, and I had a clean record going in (aside from a speeding ticket in college). And when I get asked if I ever got drunk, the answer is "Oooooh yeah....but now ask me about the stupid stuff I did and how I got really lucky that it wasn't worse."

Health, abuse, and misbehavior fall into different conversations. So you really need to identify what it is that you're talking about and what the intended goal is...and is that goal even realistic? Remember: SMART Goals.

Considering CAP has a zero tolerance policy on drug use this should be locked, due to adult leaders advocating the use of a still largely illegal substance.

Illegal in what context?

It's not illegal everywhere. So "largely" is not accurate. It may be illegal there but not here. That makes it not illegal.

CAP doesn't dictate you smoking pot in your basement on a Monday when your meetings are on Wednesday.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2019, 08:48:46 PM »

Walk into a room of cadets and tell them you never drank underage, ever.

Which room so I can go over?  No drinking underage, no weed, ever.  2 puffs on a cig to tell me how dumb that was.
A Bailey's in my coffee is a big night for me.

When I was young, I watched people I respected destroy themselves with various substances, while
others I respected told me "don't".

That was somehow, enough for me.


It's not illegal everywhere.

Yes, it actually is.

« Last Edit: June 18, 2019, 08:53:03 PM by Eclipse » Report to moderator   Logged


CAP9907
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« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2019, 09:14:55 PM »

https://www.dea.gov/drug-scheduling
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abdsp51
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« Reply #15 on: June 18, 2019, 09:29:47 PM »

.

Considering CAP has a zero tolerance policy on drug use this should be locked, due to adult leaders advocating the use of a still largely illegal substance.

Illegal in what context?

It's not illegal everywhere. So "largely" is not accurate. It may be illegal there but not here. That makes it not illegal.

CAP doesn't dictate you smoking pot in your basement on a Monday when your meetings are on Wednesday.

It is still illegal on the federal level, even if a handful of states have legalized for medicinal or sadly even recreational use. 

CAP has a zero tolerance and use policy for cadets.  It is shameful that supposed adult leaders here seem to think it"s acceptable to promote use of an illicit and harmful substance. 

I have plenty of first hand experience about how harmful a little weed can be.
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TheSkyHornet
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« Reply #16 on: June 18, 2019, 11:40:41 PM »

Cite who's promoting the use of an illicit substance. If someone wants to make the comparison that discussing the ramifications of substance abuse, as opposed to the firm mandate against it occurring ever, is the equivalence of saying "Everyone should do it," I would find that comparison to be overwhelmingly moronic.

If a CAP member lives in Colorado and is 21 years of age, that CAP member is able to possess marijuana and use it. CAP has no policy stating a person's membership will be suspended or terminated for use of recreational drugs, regardless of state law.

If we want to get specific, CAPR 60-1 states that cadets will not use alcohol or recreational drugs, regardless of state law. That doesn't apply to the individual solely as a member in CAP; that applies to their participation at CAP events. If cadet membership is suspended or terminated for consuming alcohol at any time, any cadet who consumes alcohol underage would be kicked out. We obviously don't do that, and a number of cadets have consumed alcohol under age.

Let's also not get into a debate on the U.S. Constitution and federal vs. state powers.


Can we have the link to the regulation that addresses CAP's Zero Tolerance Policy on drug use?
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PHall
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« Reply #17 on: June 19, 2019, 12:04:55 AM »

Walk into a room of cadets and tell them you never drank underage, ever.

Which room so I can go over?  No drinking underage, no weed, ever.  2 puffs on a cig to tell me how dumb that was.
A Bailey's in my coffee is a big night for me.

When I was young, I watched people I respected destroy themselves with various substances, while
others I respected told me "don't".

That was somehow, enough for me.


It's not illegal everywhere.

Yes, it actually is.

Haven't been to Canada lately, have you Bob.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #18 on: June 19, 2019, 12:26:14 AM »

Walk into a room of cadets and tell them you never drank underage, ever.

Which room so I can go over?  No drinking underage, no weed, ever.  2 puffs on a cig to tell me how dumb that was.
A Bailey's in my coffee is a big night for me.

When I was young, I watched people I respected destroy themselves with various substances, while
others I respected told me "don't".

That was somehow, enough for me.


It's not illegal everywhere.

Yes, it actually is.

Haven't been to Canada lately, have you Bob.

As a matter of fact I have.  Relevance?

Marijuana is illegal everywhere it's relevent to CAP members.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #19 on: June 19, 2019, 12:27:58 AM »

Let's also not get into a debate on the U.S. Constitution and federal vs. state powers.

Why? Because that make people sad?  Or uncomfortable?

Can you link to the list of which Federal crimes it's OK to ignore now?
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