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CAP Talk  |  Cadet Programs  |  Cadet Programs Management & Activities  |  Topic: DDR topic marijuana and THC use in adolescents
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abdsp51
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,639
Unit: Classified

« Reply #20 on: June 19, 2019, 12:34:16 AM »

Cite who's promoting the use of an illicit substance. If someone wants to make the comparison that discussing the ramifications of substance abuse, as opposed to the firm mandate against it occurring ever, is the equivalence of saying "Everyone should do it," I would find that comparison to be overwhelmingly moronic.

If a CAP member lives in Colorado and is 21 years of age, that CAP member is able to possess marijuana and use it. CAP has no policy stating a person's membership will be suspended or terminated for use of recreational drugs, regardless of state law.

If we want to get specific, CAPR 60-1 states that cadets will not use alcohol or recreational drugs, regardless of state law. That doesn't apply to the individual solely as a member in CAP; that applies to their participation at CAP events. If cadet membership is suspended or terminated for consuming alcohol at any time, any cadet who consumes alcohol underage would be kicked out. We obviously don't do that, and a number of cadets have consumed alcohol under age.

Let's also not get into a debate on the U.S. Constitution and federal vs. state powers.


Can we have the link to the regulation that addresses CAP's Zero Tolerance Policy on drug use?

CAPR 60-1 2.5. Policy on Drugs & Supplements

2.5.3. Alcohol & Recreational Drugs. Cadets will not possess or consume alcohol nor use drugs prohibited under federal law, even if local law permits their use. Further, tobacco products and e-cigarettes (vaping) are prohibited for cadets at CAP activities. Seniors will not consume alcohol at activities conducted primarily for cadets if they can reasonably expect to encounter cadets later that day. Seniors will not use tobacco products or e-cigarettes in the presence of cadets.

Drug or alcohol use by cadets is forbidden regardless of state legality.  Marijuana is still illegal under federal law, no ifs, ands, or buts about it.  The DEA could raid and shut down any shop, dispensary etc under federal law.   No where in the very same reg you tried to use to solidify your stance does it say at CAP activities. 

There have been two posts that have basically said it is ok to do it. 

And the Constitution does not grant a person the right to use illicit substances so that has very little weight in this. 

Again I call for this thread to be shut down.
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Holding Pattern
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,419
Unit: Worry

« Reply #21 on: June 19, 2019, 12:43:21 AM »

That doesn't apply to the individual solely as a member in CAP; that applies to their participation at CAP events.


OATH OF MEMBERSHIP

I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that:

...I voluntarily subscribe to the objectives and purposes of the Civil Air Patrol and agree to be guided by CAP Core Values, Ethics Policies, Constitution & Bylaws, Regulations and all applicable Federal, State, and Local Laws...
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CFToaster
Recruit

Posts: 41
Unit: SER-FL-116

« Reply #22 on: June 19, 2019, 02:09:25 AM »

And as to the referenced individuals, the fact that they imbibed and were still successful draws a line which is irrelevant
and certainly doesn't justify the use of alcohol.

I'm not saying it does. Oldguy proposed a model for discussing intoxicant use with cadets that leaned heavily on the notion that anything other than unqualified sobriety is somehow intrinsically immoral and mutually exclusive with successful leadership. The former is completely arbitrary and the latter doesn't stand up to the least bit of critical thinking, as I demonstrated by coming up with a handful of counterexamples off the top of my head.



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OldGuy
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Posts: 630
Unit: TBKS

« Reply #23 on: June 19, 2019, 02:38:14 AM »

I'm not saying it does. Oldguy proposed a model for discussing intoxicant use with cadets that leaned heavily on the notion that anything other than unqualified sobriety is somehow intrinsically immoral ...
Not what I said.
I'm not saying it does. Oldguy proposed a model for discussing intoxicant use with cadets that leaned heavily on the notion .... mutually exclusive with successful leadership.
Again, not what I said.

What I said was: Great leaders are sober. Period.

The drunks you refer to were successful, in spite of their abuse. That precludes total greatness, in my opinion. That you choose to play "strawman" games while defending intoxicants, especially in the context of the Cadet Program is worrisome.
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CFToaster
Recruit

Posts: 41
Unit: SER-FL-116

« Reply #24 on: June 19, 2019, 02:58:11 AM »

Is that really how you see the world, Oldguy? Either you’re “sober” or a “drunk?” And if you’re a “drunk” there’s an asterisk next to all of your accomplishments?
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time With Silver Clasp
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Posts: 30,007

« Reply #25 on: June 19, 2019, 02:58:15 AM »

And as to the referenced individuals, the fact that they imbibed and were still successful draws a line which is irrelevant
and certainly doesn't justify the use of alcohol.

I'm not saying it does. Oldguy proposed a model for discussing intoxicant use with cadets that leaned heavily on the notion that anything other than unqualified sobriety is somehow intrinsically immoral and mutually exclusive with successful leadership. The former is completely arbitrary and the latter doesn't stand up to the least bit of critical thinking, as I demonstrated by coming up with a handful of counterexamples off the top of my head.

See his response.  You injected your own bias.

There is no question that good leaders are sober, period.

Sobriety is a basic minimum requirement for superior performance regardless of the role, job, or skill.
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SarDragon
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Posts: 10,705
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #26 on: June 19, 2019, 03:01:09 AM »

I think it's time to terminate the measuring competition. It was a decent discussion for a while.

Click.
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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
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CAP Talk  |  Cadet Programs  |  Cadet Programs Management & Activities  |  Topic: DDR topic marijuana and THC use in adolescents
 


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