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CAPDepCom
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Posts: 80

« on: June 11, 2019, 02:30:14 PM »

SLS is required for Level II.  Yet, it's offered so infrequently and seemingly unpredictably.  If you want to reach Level II in a certain time frame and have all the other requirements, it may take going out of state or waiting a year (or more) to attend SLS.  Anyone know why SLS is so hard to find and take?  Is that intentional?  Why not make it a web-based course or that it can be attended live via internet?  Or maybe I'm missing something and the information I got about taking the course (in-person only) is wrong?
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Eclipse
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« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2019, 02:51:40 PM »

It's an issue with your Wing's PD staff
not providing enough classes or classes
where they are needed.

Many wings do multiple per year.

If you need it, discuss with your CC about hosting
one at your unit or Group.

There are also limited online classes, but
those take weeks to complete.
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etodd
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Posts: 1,681

« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2019, 02:54:52 PM »

My Wing usually offers it once or twice a year, but it never fails to be at a time when I cannot make it. My work involves a lot of weekends. Yet another reason I will probably never rise above Level One. Yet, at Wing level, folks always complaining about having too many long time Level One folks.

So I'm with you, make more of these things online. If I can study and pass tests for six IS courses online, surely SLS and others can be done online.

Also, from what I hear from others is the Officer Basic Course taking 40 hours or more.  Sure its online, But for us busy folks, thats a little much to ask for. Not all of us are retired folks.
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jeders
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« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2019, 05:15:02 PM »

So I'm with you, make more of these things online. If I can study and pass tests for six IS courses online, surely SLS and others can be done online.

It is, along with CLC and UCC; you can apply for these courses through eServices. Each course takes place over a period of 6-8 weeks with small assignments being due each week or two. If done properly, it shouldn't take more than an hour or two a night a couple of nights a week.

As for Texas wing, SLS and CLC seem to be offered every couple of months; but then again you may have to travel 8-12 hours to get to one (seriously, we have squadrons closer to the Pacific Ocean than wing HQ).
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CAPDepCom
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Posts: 80

« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2019, 05:21:28 PM »

A link within eServices to what you are referring would be helpful.  Thanks.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2019, 05:24:58 PM »

CAP is not a correspondence course, and the majority of the benefit of these classes
is networking with local peers.  Discussing / debating wing policieswith people from
another Region is anecdotally interesting, but not much use to either party.

If you have personal conflicts that limit your ability to participate in weekend / evening activities,
you aren't likely to be able to participate in positions of authority or influence which would benefit
from these classes anyway.

That's fine, great in fact.  CAP needs operators and wrench turners, lots of them.  There should be a lot more
emphasis on just letting people be members.

I fully support mandated training for those who want to take leadership and command roles in
CAP, however it's just not CAP's fault that someone works night / weekends, can't do weekend-long or
week-long activities, any more then people with 9-5s can't do things during business hours, etc.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2019, 05:27:47 PM »

Sure its online, But for us busy folks, thats a little much to ask for. Not all of us are retired folks.

Wow, seriously?  You think those are the people running this organization?

You really believe the members attending and running these classes and doing the ACTUAL WORK
of CAP that provides the opportunities and framework for pilots to fly, cadets to be successful, etc., etc.
have nothing better to do?

Statements like that explain much of your other positions on things.
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CAPDepCom
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Posts: 80

« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2019, 05:37:11 PM »

If you have personal conflicts that limit your ability to participate in weekend / evening activities,
you aren't likely to be able to participate in positions of authority or influence which would benefit
from these classes anyway.

Eclipse: please, just don't, okay?  I opened up this thread to get some helpful advice, direction, and discussion - not opinionated, self-righteous judgment.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2019, 05:44:02 PM »

If you have personal conflicts that limit your ability to participate in weekend / evening activities,
you aren't likely to be able to participate in positions of authority or influence which would benefit
from these classes anyway.

Eclipse: please, just don't, okay?  I opened up this thread to get some helpful advice, direction, and discussion - not opinionated, self-righteous judgment.

Perhaps asking a question then, instead of opening your thread with assertions which aren't necessarily true,
or are extremely local.

"Can you complete SLS online?" (Which a search of Google, or here would have found you an answer for in 30 seconds)

Vs.

"SLS is too infrequent and far away to meet my personal schedule, why isn't it online?"

The former gets an answer: https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/members/cap-university/cap-elearning/cap-online-learning

...the latter gets opinionated self-righteous judgment.
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GZCP31
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Posts: 55
Unit: Somewhere

« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2019, 05:50:07 PM »

I worked with the Group PD officer and arraigned to have SLS taught at our squadron this past weekend. It took a few months to coordinate but it was worth it. We supplied the location, 2 of the instructors and the Group PD officer handled the paperwork and running it up the chain for approvals. We had 10 people complete the course.

If your squadron has a large need, have your Professional Development officer request the course. If your squadron does not have enough people needing it, coordinate with near by squadrons to see if you can get it completed.
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TheSkyHornet
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Posts: 1,807

« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2019, 06:19:34 PM »

I definitely recommend reaching out to your Wing Professional Development team and providing feedback (your request). There's a good chance that you're not the only one in that boat.

I also highly recommend talking to your Group leadership to discuss hosting one at the Group level. And being hosted within the Group, it can still be open for sign-ups in other Groups or across the Wing.

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CAPDepCom
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Posts: 80

« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2019, 06:42:55 PM »

I worked with the Group PD officer and arraigned to have SLS taught at our squadron this past weekend. It took a few months to coordinate but it was worth it. We supplied the location, 2 of the instructors and the Group PD officer handled the paperwork and running it up the chain for approvals. We had 10 people complete the course.

If your squadron has a large need, have your Professional Development officer request the course. If your squadron does not have enough people needing it, coordinate with near by squadrons to see if you can get it completed.

Great idea, and thanks!
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MSG Mac
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« Reply #12 on: June 11, 2019, 07:16:41 PM »

If weekends are a problem, you can arrange an SLS, that falls on a weekday, probably 3-4 hours/week over a month.
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Michael P. McEleney
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Slim
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« Reply #13 on: June 11, 2019, 09:38:22 PM »

If weekends are a problem, you can arrange an SLS, that falls on a weekday, probably 3-4 hours/week over a month.
Exactly.  As long as you meet the minimum contact hours for the course, you can do them any time.  My unit ran one a few years back, three hours every Tuesday for a month, and had about 12 students as I recall.
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Slim
Eclipse
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« Reply #14 on: June 11, 2019, 09:42:20 PM »

If weekends are a problem, you can arrange an SLS, that falls on a weekday, probably 3-4 hours/week over a month.
Exactly.  As long as you meet the minimum contact hours for the course, you can do them any time.  My unit ran one a few years back, three hours every Tuesday for a month, and had about 12 students as I recall.

To be fair, some wings are reluctant to do this, and it pre-supposes you either have properly
experienced instructors in the unit or that you can find wing people willing to come to the meeting multiple times,
but it doesn't hurt to ask.

Weekdays are also an option if you have enough people interested (holidays, etc).
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EMT-83
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« Reply #15 on: June 12, 2019, 11:04:14 AM »

Do the legwork and pass it up the chain. Find someone to be the course director and have him recruit qualified instructors. Secure a facility and establish a list of potential students.

Write up a proposal and submit it upstream asking for support. Running an SLS is easy! There's no valid excuse for SLS to be a barrier to progression.
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Holding Pattern
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« Reply #16 on: June 12, 2019, 04:59:01 PM »

We put one on our squadron calendar when we hear members complain about the lack/request it.

Remember that at this time NO ONE is running statistical reports and proactively reaching out to people about training; it's on you to let your chain of command know that there is a need.
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THRAWN
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« Reply #17 on: June 12, 2019, 05:08:43 PM »

We put one on our squadron calendar when we hear members complain about the lack/request it.

Remember that at this time NO ONE is running statistical reports and proactively reaching out to people about training; it's on you to let your chain of command know that there is a need.

Alternatively, put one (and a CLC) on the calendar, same time, every year, that way, you don't have to be reactive to "complaints". It's up to the organization to offer training, not up to the member to have to beg for it.
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Strup
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Spam
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« Reply #18 on: June 12, 2019, 06:07:50 PM »

We put one on our squadron calendar when we hear members complain about the lack/request it.

Remember that at this time NO ONE is running statistical reports and proactively reaching out to people about training; it's on you to let your chain of command know that there is a need.

Hi, Pattern.

Agree - great idea - to ping your members and pass up head counts of requests.
Strongly disagree that no one is monitoring metrics/reaching out re: training. Our Wing does, so, YMMV.
Strongly agree that its every members task to put in your requests/desires, up the chain.


To the OP:

Re: online SLS/CLC/UCCs:
I disapprove/approve requests at Wing for online SLS/CLC/UCC classes on a weekly basis. When I get an initial request, I disapprove them with an explanation that we prefer that members take advantage of the benefits of in residence training (face to face with peers, sharing techniques and networking), and I give them a request to please provide a justification as to why they can't make a weekend event. I've gotten back some great justifications, after which I've hit "approve" (examples: church pastor working on SUNs, deployed active duty in Afghanistan, law enforcement on weekend night duty, etc.).  Of course, this presupposes that our Wing will continue to average 2 - 3 SLS/CLCs per year as we have (the next Wing PD weekend is later this month).

Regarding UCC, we have historically held 1 - 2 events per year, and don't approve UCC completion on line given that and the size of our state (might be a different answer were we the size of some western states). We want to ensure that prospective Unit Commanders get the same face to face connectivity and lessons learned which are absent in online classes. Now, unfortunately we just had to postpone the UCC scheduled for this month due to work conflicts but will be rescheduling in a couple of months, with a notice to our all seniors email lists.

Regarding TLC, last year I worked with our DCP and asked him to designate a lead TLC instructor to mentor/sign off TLC instructors and to ensure we're providing frequent classes, AT the units. TLC classes (Basic/Intermed) are being held at the rate of 4 - 5 a year in our Wing to try to get out in front of our requirements and reduce risk proactively. We're mostly blue (better than green) across the board at our units on that requirement, and are working to translate CP schools completion into active mentoring leading to specialty track progression. The biggest hassle there is getting National HQ to enter credit for our students, since TLC was forgotten/omitted from the online registration/completion system... and we are perpetually seeing errors/lost credits for our people as they have to be manually entered (or are not entered, as the case may be).

That's our status in a nutshell, but again, your mileage may vary (YMMV). Note that I mention monitoring and tracking metrics, btw... metrics are for the manager where people are the province of the leader, and both are indispensable, to paraphrase Field Marshall Slim.

V/r
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MacGruff
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Posts: 356

« Reply #19 on: June 12, 2019, 07:42:55 PM »

PA Wing has done several things you may want to suggest to your wing:

1.   They offer PD Weekends three times a year - One in each part of the state (West, Center, East) - where they offer SLS, CLC, USS, TLC-Basic and Intermediate during the same weekend. Every year. Easy to plan for. If you need it THIS YEAR, it's available, even if you need to drive a bit further.
2.   SLS was modified to be a hybrid: one day in-service the other modules done online in advance. That way you gain two benefits:
      a.    You maintain the networking feature that is so important; and
      b.    You can couple that with one of the TLC classes that are also offered as one day events and get a "two for the price of one weekend" benefit.
3.   Your group PDO - and Wing PDO for that matter - should be monitoring how many people need various trainings and setting those us based on needs.

Of course, I do not know which Wing you are a part of, nor how big your Wing is, so your mileage may vary...

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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Membership  |  Topic: Squadron Leadership School
 


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