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CAP Talk  |  Operations  |  Emergency Services & Operations  |  Topic: Cadets taking part in local SAR efforts
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CAPDepCom
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« on: May 26, 2019, 11:26:00 PM »

As someone completely ignorant about CAP's SAR participation, I have a question: If there's a local search and rescue effort where someone is being searched for in a flat, forest-type area and local authorities such as sheriff's office and park service have asked for volunteers, what is the official CAP policy on requesting from the Wing that a squadron or squadron's cadets take part *as* CAP?

Maybe the simpler question would be: when does CAP take part in actual SAR?

Like I said, I'm admittedly ignorant about this aspect of CAP (have only been in a year), so asking folks responding refrain from the "are you an idiot?" kind of answers and tone.  Thanks in advance.
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TIger
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« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2019, 11:26:59 PM »

Your wing commander would have to authorize a mission for that.


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NIN
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« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2019, 11:32:08 PM »

Maybe the simpler question would be: when does CAP take part in actual SAR?

When its part of an authorized mission.

Showing up at a "volunteers requested" local SAR situation in CAP uniform would be a no-no.

Showing up in civvies (with knowledge gleaned from training obtained via CAP) to participate is another matter.

But CAP members just can't "self-deploy" themselves.
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CAPDepCom
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« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2019, 11:39:33 PM »

I figured that was all there was to it, logically that's what I thought it would take.  But I'm getting a different message from local CAP folks.  Is it really just as simple as the squadron commander requesting from the Wing (probably the group commander before that) for us to be involved?  Or does it vary from Wing to Wing?
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etodd
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« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2019, 11:55:43 PM »

Insurance is a huge factor.  And a reason one cannot simply self deploy.  Who requested the official mission? What mission number covers it? What resources and personnel have been added to that Mission number. Etc., etc.

Its another reason Wings should have MOUs between these agencies like the Park Service you mention, so that these Mission numbers and resources will already be in-place, and then can be quickly activated.
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« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2019, 12:00:53 AM »

The MOU is a really good point, and I'm going to remember that when I talk to our SAR guy and squadron commander about this issue.
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Luis R. Ramos
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« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2019, 12:01:05 AM »

There should be protocols established loooong before the actual search takes place. These outline what would CAP be responsible for, and what would be expected from the local authorities. These protocols are embodied in MOUs, or "memorandums of understanding." The MOU would also cover how are the local squadrons called out. The MOUs are signed by the Wing Commander.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2019, 12:22:33 AM »

Your wing commander The NOC would have to authorize a mission for that.

FTFY

The customer contacts the NOC and requests assistance.

The NOC contacts the wing's duty officer to see if the Wing can accept the mission.

Generally, in order for this to happen, relationships must pre-exist, however MOUs are not required.

Many States require their EMA be in front of all SAR, and once they are involved they run the show,
requesting CAP or not on their authority.

All of these needs to be discussed / planned and agreed to in advance through the CAP operational
chain in your wing.

The MOU is a really good point, and I'm going to remember that when I talk to our SAR guy and squadron commander about this issue.

Your Unit CC and DOS are charged with establishing relationships with local EMAs and other authorities, depending
on your AOR, however no one below Wing can sign an MOU, and frankly they are generally more trouble then they are worth.

Presentations to the local agencies that show your real-world capabilities (once you establish what they are), response times, and yes, the cost of CAP services
generally are all you need.

Do it before the waters start rising.

« Last Edit: May 27, 2019, 12:25:47 AM by Eclipse » Report to moderator   Logged


Spaceman3750
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« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2019, 04:02:45 AM »

Your wing commander The NOC would have to authorize a mission for that.

FTFY

The customer contacts the NOC and requests assistance.

In the last few years the standard here has been most SAR requests should go to AFRCC, who will establish if there is federal interest (search is viable and mutual aid is exhausted), cut a mission number, and contact the duty officer. They will also want a request via email from the agency (according to the state’s MOU with them) who has jurisdiction over the type of search being requested.

The NOC can open a corporate mission when federal interest isn’t established, but the AF route is very much preferred because of AFAM status.

When I talk to various agencies, I give them two numbers, one for AFRCC for SAR and one for NOC for everything else. I’m sure if the NOC gets a SAR request they figure it out, but that’s the latest direction I have as a group ESO and IC.
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CAPDepCom
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« Reply #9 on: May 27, 2019, 04:10:02 AM »

Lots of great suggestions and advice. 

Is there a flow chart of any kind for the steps to take in the event that something is happening and CAP could be part of the effort.  For instance, if an individual is lost in the woods and local law enforcement is asking for volunteers to search in groups.  Having something handy to look at matrix or flow-chart wise to cross all the t's and dot all the i's as a reminder for each step to take, each person to contact, to make sure everything that needs to be in place is in place before going the wrong direction and holding up the approval process?
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Spaceman3750
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« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2019, 04:13:11 AM »

To bottom line it for OP, there is currently no method for CAP members to participate in searches as spontaneous volunteers. The agency responsible for the search can request CAP assistance through a couple of channels, but we cannot just volunteer, even if there is an open call for volunteers.

Once CAP was requested and a mission number opened, only qualified members or trainees would be permitted to participate in the search. So if your squadron wants to participate in SAR, now is the time to start training.

By the way, we’re still taking applications for the National Emergency Services Academy, which is a great way to complete high quality, qualification-focused training in just a week or two. More info at http://NESA.cap.gov.
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Spaceman3750
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« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2019, 04:22:31 AM »

Lots of great suggestions and advice. 

Is there a flow chart of any kind for the steps to take in the event that something is happening and CAP could be part of the effort.  For instance, if an individual is lost in the woods and local law enforcement is asking for volunteers to search in groups.  Having something handy to look at matrix or flow-chart wise to cross all the t's and dot all the i's as a reminder for each step to take, each person to contact, to make sure everything that needs to be in place is in place before going the wrong direction and holding up the approval process?

PM sent :).
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sardak
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« Reply #12 on: May 27, 2019, 04:31:30 AM »

This is what everyone should review, CAPR 111-2  "Memorandum of Understanding."

1. (c) - Corporate MOU Authority (CMA) refers to the corporate officer/commander under whose authority the MOU is to be performed. The wing commander is the CMA for local and wing MOUs in his/her wing.

1. (e)(2) - Wing MOU. An MOU that facilitates a recurring operational and/or training relationship between a CAP wing and a state or state agency (including the District of Columbia and the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico), is considered a wing MOU.

1. (e) (3) - Local MOU. An MOU that addresses a relationship between a CAP unit below wing level and a local government below the state level, or another organization, is considered a local MOU.

1. (i) - Recurring Need for CAP Services and Support. For operational MOUs, this means the parties anticipate CAP performing approximately 12 or more missions per year.

1. (j) - Request for Assistance. A request for assistance (RFA) is typically a one page letter or short e-mail message to a Federal agency that requests assistance and sets forth the legal authority for granting the assistance. A sample RFA is provided at http://members.gocivilairpatrol.com/cap_national_hq/general_counsel/request_for_assistance_form.cfm.

3. (a)(2) Required and Optional MOUs. It is presumed that every state has a recurring need for CAP services and support. Therefore, every CAP wing is required to maintain a current MOU with the state in which it operates. Each wing that does not have a current MOU with the state must submit a statement of reasons through its region commander to the CAP/CC with a copy to National Headquarters General Counsel (NHQ/GC).

3. (a)(3) Alternatives to an Operational MOU. The National Operations Center (NOC) is able to support mission requests without an MOU. As an alternative to creating an operational MOU, the entity seeking support should be encouraged to contact the NOC toll free at (888) 211-1812 or opscenter@capnhq.gov. A formal RFA may be used by the entity to request assistance for a short time or as needed over a longer period, such as a fiscal or calendar year.

Eclipse refers to this last paragraph.  Our wing has what are essentially standing RFAs with three counties.  Each year two of the counties submit a one page letter to the Wing asking that CAP be available to support their needs for services and that they will reimburse the wing IAW CAPR 173-3 "Payment for Mission Support."  After receipt of the letters, the wing opens a corporate mission request which the NOC then approves. From receipt of the letter to active mission number takes no more than a day or two.  The third county follows the same procedure, but submits a multi-page plan instead of a single page.  We also do RFAs for emergency requests and the NOC accepts emails from the requesting agencies.  For SAR and "mass rescue operations" incidents, we have the requesting agency call AFRCC direct.

The lower 48 states and DC (not Wings) each has an MOU and MOA with AFRCC (the currency of these vary greatly).  The MOA is signed by the governor and the 1AF commander.  The MOU details the implementation of the MOA and is signed by the AFRCC commander and the appropriate state agencies which may or may not include CAP.  We are a signatory to our state's, so use it to meet the requirement of the regulation.  The other signatories are state OEM, state sheriff's association and state SAR association.

 Mike
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Spaceman3750
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« Reply #13 on: May 27, 2019, 04:38:37 AM »

Eclipse refers to this last paragraph.  Our wing has what are essentially standing RFAs with three counties.  Each year two of the counties submit a one page letter to the Wing asking that CAP be available to support their needs for services and that they will reimburse the wing IAW CAPR 173-3 "Payment for Mission Support."  After receipt of the letters, the wing opens a corporate mission request which the NOC then approves. From receipt of the letter to active mission number takes no more than a day or two.  The third county follows the same procedure, but submits a multi-page plan instead of a single page.  We also do RFAs for emergency requests and the NOC accepts emails from the requesting agencies.  For SAR and "mass rescue operations" incidents, we have the requesting agency call AFRCC direct.

That’s actually pretty cool. I dig it (for non-SAR stuff). Probably wouldn’t happen here, mostly because counties with recurring need are few and far between, but I like the idea.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #14 on: May 27, 2019, 04:52:20 AM »

All correct and important, however there are several states that have no interest in an MOU with CAP
for DR or anything outside the mandate of the Federal AFRCC requirement.

The AFRCC MOU is not the same as an MOU between the respective wing and CAP (BTDT when i was DOS).

Every CI we'd get dinged, every time we'd respond "state has no interest". 

It didn't effect, either way, our ability to provide resources when requested, though in nearly every case
the resources were requested at the individual agency, county or even more local level,.

CAP was / is an official resource in any number of state-agency response plans, but at the official state level
there was / is still too much CAwhonow?
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sardak
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« Reply #15 on: May 27, 2019, 05:36:13 AM »

We've always been able to use the AFRCC MOU to meet the CI requirement.

Mike
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Eclipse
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« Reply #16 on: May 27, 2019, 05:54:39 AM »

We've always been able to use the AFRCC MOU to meet the CI requirement.

Mike

I can't argue you haven't, but if it's the boiler plate one, it's not an agreement with CAP, it's an agreement with the AFRCC, and while CAP is a potential resource for them, it's not the only one.
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sardak
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« Reply #17 on: May 27, 2019, 06:50:08 AM »

Trust me, I fully understand how the state, CAP, AFRCC, non-CAP resources and the MOUs work.

Mike
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etodd
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« Reply #18 on: May 27, 2019, 03:09:51 PM »

WINGS and Local Squadrons are so different.

In some areas, local resources are so great that CAP isn't needed. Mine for example. The local police department has two helicopters with FLIR and more. The Sheriff has one of the same, plus an airplane, and horseback patrols, four wheelers, side by sides, drones with FLIR, and so much more, and in a need will serve all the surrounding counties.

They are always on duty. Can respond virtually instantly.

Watching the stats here in the last couple years, when it comes to SAR, looks like 90% of the Saves are due to the Cell Phone forensic team. Who work inside and don't have muddy boots. They provide info most of the time to local agencies. Not to CAP ground teams. Its the trend anyway.

Our Squadron responds to FEMA needs and to special missions like the Army training we do. But SAR winds up just being to find that ELT going off in a hangar. Yes, we still train ground teams, but ....
« Last Edit: May 27, 2019, 03:14:08 PM by etodd » Report to moderator   Logged
MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO - ESO

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« Reply #19 on: May 28, 2019, 01:34:14 AM »

Thanks to everyone who responded.
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