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Author Topic: Flight Academy and Encampment overlap.  (Read 1316 times)
Picy3
Recruit

Posts: 49
Unit: PCR-WA-015

« on: May 24, 2019, 06:49:15 AM »

Greetings,

Now this is a very informal thing but I am just looking for other opinions on what my course of action should/could be for this. OR what may also be possible.

I was accepted to Desert Eagle as a student (glider). Got scholarship and everything, am confirmed. I was chosen as Cadre at AKWG encampment. Problem: The cadre training days eats into the last three (basically two) days of the Flight academy. Both of these are extremely important to me as one is flying and the other giving me extremely good leadership experience which is what I am looking for.

Now I know in order to Solo (which is my goal) I obviously have to be at the flight academy the whole time. I also know how important Cadre training days are and wouldnt want to miss those.

Now I have a few choices. Go to the flight academy then go to staff the encampment on the days I'm supposed to arrive (leaving the flight academy about two days early). Not solo, but possibly get Pre-Solo (So I was told). I could also stay as long as possible then leave end of the day before the last day of the flight academy to get the most flight completed. Another option is doing somewhat of a request to have all my needed flights done early if possible so I could leave early from the academy (but this I believe is not possible).

One last thing. I was told it may be possible if I had to leave early before doing all my needed flights I could try to schedule with someone to get those last flights done and get my solo when I return. (or its was something like that)

So yeah. Obviously at the last resort I would chose between the two and only do one, but I am looking on opinions on the best course of action. (And not just "do one and drop the other")
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Cadet Chief Master Sergeant who is stuck on his Mitchell AE Test.

Rocketry badge, GTM3 badge, Encampment Cadre and two years of CAP in all its greatness.
DFAC - 2019 WRIII
Logistics - 2019 CFXXIV
Alpha Flight Commander - 2019 ACIV
Mitchell 1969
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 918
Unit: PCR-CA-051

« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2019, 08:28:12 AM »

Greetings,

Now this is a very informal thing but I am just looking for other opinions on what my course of action should/could be for this. OR what may also be possible.

I was accepted to Desert Eagle as a student (glider). Got scholarship and everything, am confirmed. I was chosen as Cadre at AKWG encampment. Problem: The cadre training days eats into the last three (basically two) days of the Flight academy. Both of these are extremely important to me as one is flying and the other giving me extremely good leadership experience which is what I am looking for.

Now I know in order to Solo (which is my goal) I obviously have to be at the flight academy the whole time. I also know how important Cadre training days are and wouldnt want to miss those.

Now I have a few choices. Go to the flight academy then go to staff the encampment on the days I'm supposed to arrive (leaving the flight academy about two days early). Not solo, but possibly get Pre-Solo (So I was told). I could also stay as long as possible then leave end of the day before the last day of the flight academy to get the most flight completed. Another option is doing somewhat of a request to have all my needed flights done early if possible so I could leave early from the academy (but this I believe is not possible).

One last thing. I was told it may be possible if I had to leave early before doing all my needed flights I could try to schedule with someone to get those last flights done and get my solo when I return. (or its was something like that)

So yeah. Obviously at the last resort I would chose between the two and only do one, but I am looking on opinions on the best course of action. (And not just "do one and drop the other")

It would be more accurate to say that you have NO choices. Oh, the choices are there - they are just not yours to make.

I had a similar problem in 1970. Yes, back when we had steam driven airplanes and encampments lasted six months. (Or so it seemed) and “Cadet Flying Encampment” overlapped Encampment.

If I was in charge of your encampment, I doubt that I could or would use you if you showed up late, missing any training up front. Likewise, if I was in charge of your flight program, I doubt that I’d want to take on a special case who needed multiple schedule adjustments and borderline program modifications. There is no way to simply load your flight program up front in hopes of getting you out early. That isn’t the objective - the objective is to get you flying according to a program which will constantly review your progress and which may require you to adjust to specific instructor availability.

It seems that the flight program is where you want to make the adjustments. If so, talk to the school director and lay it all out so that their choice (not yours; you are only bringing considerations and options) can be implemented. But, even though you do not  want to hear “just drop one do the other,” be prepared to hear that very thing. Because it’s the Civil Air Patrol and not the “Picy3 Personalized Cadet Show.” If you are told to pick one, choose wisely, smile, salute and execute. 


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Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.
MSG Mac
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,007
Unit: MER-MD-071

« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2019, 11:32:04 AM »

Do the Solo program to the end. You have accepted their money (scholarship), Integrity, (leadership, Vol 1, chap 1) dictates that you honor that commitment. Contact the Encampment staff and tell them you will attend, but will arrive late, due to the requirements of the solo school. Their are other Leadership opportunities outside of encampments.    Since you're in CAWG, I am sure that there are encampments in the several bordering wings that will be happy to provide the "Extremely valuable leadership experience" you're looking for. 
« Last Edit: May 24, 2019, 11:35:42 AM by MSG Mac » Report to moderator   Logged
Michael P. McEleney
Lt Col CAP
MSG USA (Retired)
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time With Silver Clasp
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Posts: 30,007

« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2019, 01:04:27 PM »

Do the Solo program to the end. You have accepted their money (scholarship), Integrity, (leadership, Vol 1, chap 1) dictates that you honor that commitment.

So the commitment to be cadre means nothing?  Any number of people are depending on this cadet to be there.

If I was in charge of your encampment, I doubt that I could or would use you if you showed up late, missing any training up front. Likewise, if I was in charge of your flight program, I doubt that I’d want to take on a special case who needed multiple schedule adjustments and borderline program modifications. There is no way to simply load your flight program up front in hopes of getting you out early. That isn’t the objective - the objective is to get you flying according to a program which will constantly review your progress and which may require you to adjust to specific instructor availability.

This.

You don't apply for a staff job at an activity and then "tell" them you are going to be late.
Not only is that not your choice, it's generally not even a practical option.

There is likely required staff training that needs to be done, not to mention the actual work
of the cadre, which involves other cadets who committed to being there and deserve cadre attention.
These types of activities collapse when people start making up their own rules and schedules.

Neither of these activities, which encompasses scores, if not hundreds of participants, should be expected to make
accommodations for you because you over committed.

Choose one.  Notify the other immediately that you will not be there and move on.

Someone else will use the scholarship money if you go to encampment, but may miss the chance if you wait too long to decide.

There are certainly contingency plans for alternate staff at the encampment, but they should should not be left hanging
nor should another cadet miss the opportunity because you wait too long, this is especially true considering that the encampment is in another wing.

Next year don't apply for two major activities that overlap.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2019, 01:14:57 PM by Eclipse » Report to moderator   Logged


Jester
Seasoned Member

Posts: 392

« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2019, 03:01:11 PM »

My immediate response is to pick the flying thing because encampments are much more common and easier to get into.

However, you may be able to ask about going to encampment late.  If you were support staff or something like that, I'd be inclined to let you.  Line staff, not so much. 

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Picy3
Recruit

Posts: 49
Unit: PCR-WA-015

« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2019, 08:45:00 PM »

Just to clarify a few things that were brought up:

Yes, I am line staff. I'm a Flight commander, which is obviously why I can't miss that first day (specifically that first moment we all get together) (Though I had joked about making a "Darth Vader" entrance with my friend and having my flight sergeant cover for me, need be if I'm an hour or two late to the cadets meeting line staff. Again just a joke. I wouldn't want to nor actually compromise the encampment because of this.)

Don't know where I said I was in CAWG, but I'm in WAWG. (But I doubt that's important)

When I applied for staff at the encampment and the flight academy I did not know they would overlap. (But I admit on my end this is something I should have looked into more closely)

It's my personal belief that getting the flight training and possibly missing the end of the academy is still worth it. The goal of the academy is not to Produce soloing cadets, but to produce pilots. If I go, love it and plan to go into being a pilot as a career then its still done it. (But like I said it just my opinion on that)

As for cadre training I've asked already as I'm doing ATS at our local encampment to come for Pre-Encampment to learn as much as I can and if it counted get the required training. Assuming I did this it would fix the missing the cadre training days during the academy.

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Cadet Chief Master Sergeant who is stuck on his Mitchell AE Test.

Rocketry badge, GTM3 badge, Encampment Cadre and two years of CAP in all its greatness.
DFAC - 2019 WRIII
Logistics - 2019 CFXXIV
Alpha Flight Commander - 2019 ACIV
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time With Silver Clasp
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Posts: 30,007

« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2019, 09:23:22 PM »

^ Your local encampment is not the same as the encampment in another wing.

As a flight CC you are a critical, non-optional component of an encampment and your flight's
training and success depend on you.

You can't be a part-time flight CC, and training in another wing doesn't mean you'll have a clue about
what is required / expected in a completely different wing.

Make a choice and let the other activity know.
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Mitchell 1969
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 918
Unit: PCR-CA-051

« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2019, 09:49:28 PM »


It's my personal belief that getting the flight training and possibly missing the end of the academy is still worth it. The goal of the academy is not to Produce soloing cadets, but to produce pilots. If I go, love it and plan to go into being a pilot as a career then its still done it. (But like I said it just my opinion on that)

Uh...what? No, that’s not what I wanted to ask...I meant WHAT!!!???

The flight academy does, indeed, have producing pilots as a goal. And pilots solo before going anywhere else. It seems that you’ve got the idea in your head that it’s ok to show at the academy, get whatever training you can and then move on, soloed or not, picking up what you didn’t get to at some future event.

That’s not how it works.

What should we tell the cadet who is ready to jump in with both feet and grab it all, including solo?  “Sorry, Cadet, no room for you, some guy who wants it all is piecing together a custom plan where he gets what he has time for because he can’t commit to one activity over another?”

I’m going to suggest that you do a quick refresh of the CAP core values and see if your self-centered plans stand up to those values.

You really need to tell either the academy or Encampment that you are not available this year. Do it soon. Delaying that phone call will not make it any easier. Above all, you do not want to get the jacket of “cadet who fiddled two activities knowing he couldn’t do complete justice to both.” That will stay with you for a long time and will impact future decisions about you by people whose opinions really count.



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Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.
Picy3
Recruit

Posts: 49
Unit: PCR-WA-015

« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2019, 11:43:55 PM »


It's my personal belief that getting the flight training and possibly missing the end of the academy is still worth it. The goal of the academy is not to Produce soloing cadets, but to produce pilots. If I go, love it and plan to go into being a pilot as a career then its still done it. (But like I said it just my opinion on that)

Uh...what? No, that’s not what I wanted to ask...I meant WHAT!!!???

The flight academy does, indeed, have producing pilots as a goal. And pilots solo before going anywhere else. It seems that you’ve got the idea in your head that it’s ok to show at the academy, get whatever training you can and then move on, soloed or not, picking up what you didn’t get to at some future event.

That’s not how it works.

What should we tell the cadet who is ready to jump in with both feet and grab it all, including solo?  “Sorry, Cadet, no room for you, some guy who wants it all is piecing together a custom plan where he gets what he has time for because he can’t commit to one activity over another?”

I’m going to suggest that you do a quick refresh of the CAP core values and see if your self-centered plans stand up to those values.

You really need to tell either the academy or Encampment that you are not available this year. Do it soon. Delaying that phone call will not make it any easier. Above all, you do not want to get the jacket of “cadet who fiddled two activities knowing he couldn’t do complete justice to both.” That will stay with you for a long time and will impact future decisions about you by people whose opinions really count.



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This is what I was looking for. So I'm going to email my encampment activity staff about this and most likely just do the Flight academy.
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Cadet Chief Master Sergeant who is stuck on his Mitchell AE Test.

Rocketry badge, GTM3 badge, Encampment Cadre and two years of CAP in all its greatness.
DFAC - 2019 WRIII
Logistics - 2019 CFXXIV
Alpha Flight Commander - 2019 ACIV
Mitchell 1969
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 918
Unit: PCR-CA-051

« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2019, 03:37:52 AM »


It's my personal belief that getting the flight training and possibly missing the end of the academy is still worth it. The goal of the academy is not to Produce soloing cadets, but to produce pilots. If I go, love it and plan to go into being a pilot as a career then its still done it. (But like I said it just my opinion on that)

Uh...what? No, that’s not what I wanted to ask...I meant WHAT!!!???

The flight academy does, indeed, have producing pilots as a goal. And pilots solo before going anywhere else. It seems that you’ve got the idea in your head that it’s ok to show at the academy, get whatever training you can and then move on, soloed or not, picking up what you didn’t get to at some future event.

That’s not how it works.

What should we tell the cadet who is ready to jump in with both feet and grab it all, including solo?  “Sorry, Cadet, no room for you, some guy who wants it all is piecing together a custom plan where he gets what he has time for because he can’t commit to one activity over another?”

I’m going to suggest that you do a quick refresh of the CAP core values and see if your self-centered plans stand up to those values.

You really need to tell either the academy or Encampment that you are not available this year. Do it soon. Delaying that phone call will not make it any easier. Above all, you do not want to get the jacket of “cadet who fiddled two activities knowing he couldn’t do complete justice to both.” That will stay with you for a long time and will impact future decisions about you by people whose opinions really count.



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This is what I was looking for. So I'm going to email my encampment activity staff about this and most likely just do the Flight academy.

“Most likely?” Make a decision already!


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Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.
CAP9907
Global Moderator

Posts: 192

« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2019, 04:46:11 AM »

Settle down.

They have the advice, let’s hope they make the right call

~9907
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