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francisderosa16
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Posts: 115

« on: February 20, 2019, 10:40:13 PM »

Hello,
So I have a lot questions I hope to be answered:
-Are flight officers officers?
-If I transition to a SM with only the Wright Bros. award, what rank would I be?
-Are CAP members considered Airman, [just like Navy is sailor, Army is soldier, etc.]
- Can a cadet member transition to a SM and be a NCO without enlisting?
-How do SM NCOs promote?
-How do Senior Members Promote and how fast?
-What what rank and requirements are required to make your own squadron?
-How do cadets with squadrons on base get on base with no military ID?
-Are squadron Commanders paid?


Thank you, I appreciate your effort to read and/or answer this, and sorry its a lot of questions!

Cadet DeRosa



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Capmonkey
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Posts: 185

« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2019, 11:17:32 PM »

Good evening, Cadet.
     Have you researched any of these answers in the regulations? Most of these can be answered by simple searches within the regulations. One thing that jumped out to me, Squadron Commander DO NOT get paid, as NO member of CAP is paid, as we are volunteers. The only people who I believe are paid are some NHQ Staff in Montgomery. Once again, search the regs before you ask questions here.

V/R,
C/Lt Col Capmonkey
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GaryVC
Seasoned Member

Posts: 220
Unit: PCR-NV-070

« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2019, 12:06:39 AM »

-How do cadets with squadrons on base get on base with no military ID?

This is a big problem in places where base restrictions are in place (which is most everywhere). If you have a squadron in mind you should ask them. Here locally they were transported on base from the visitors center by someone with an ID.
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PHall
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Posts: 6,622

« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2019, 12:31:57 AM »

-How do cadets with squadrons on base get on base with no military ID?

This is a big problem in places where base restrictions are in place (which is most everywhere). If you have a squadron in mind you should ask them. Here locally they were transported on base from the visitors center by someone with an ID.

It is up to what the Base Commander wants, it's their call.
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Pace
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« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2019, 12:40:10 AM »

Wow...


Let me ask you some questions. What are you trying to get out of your CAP experience? What knowledge or skills do you have to pass on to cadets or use to contribute to the operation of a CAP squadron (because SMs are expected to be mentors and actually run the programs)?


If your goal is rank, prestige, and money, might I suggest your local recruiter.


If your goal is to give back to the program in a meaningful way, I would first ask you if you have used the cadet program to its fullest to better yourself prior to becoming a SM.


If you are considering becoming an adult member/mentor, you will be held to a much higher standard of self-reliance. For example, nearly every one of your questions can be answered by reading the appropriate regulation on the NHQ website. You also could take advantage of local resources by asking your chain of command.


I would strongly opine that you may greatly benefit from additional time as a cadet. There are many lessons to learn before you are ready to lead others.


Good luck.
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Lt Col, CAP
Former C/Lt Col
Former this & that
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Eclipse
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Posts: 30,139

« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2019, 01:10:53 AM »

-Are flight officers officers?
Yes.

-If I transition to a SM with only the Wright Bros. award, what rank would I be?
Senior Member

-Are CAP members considered Airman, [just like Navy is sailor, Army is soldier, etc.]
No (except for an extremely narrow lane during 1AF missions).

- Can a cadet member transition to a SM and be a NCO without enlisting?
No

-How do SM NCOs promote?
Via either other-service equivalent promotion, some staff assignments, or CAP-PD.

-How do Senior Members Promote and how fast?
Via either other-service equivalent promotion, some staff assignments, or CAP-PD.
There is no such thing as "fast" per se.  There are service, PD, and TIG requirements just like with cadets.

-What what rank and requirements are required to make your own squadron?
Not applicable, that's not how units are seeded.

-How do cadets with squadrons on base get on base with no military ID?
CAP and USAF regs call for admittance to military facilities with a CAP ID.  Most also have local policies.
If you need to know, you'll know.

-Are squadron Commanders paid?
No.
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MSG Mac
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« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2019, 01:16:56 AM »

Most of your questions can be answered by viewing:
CAPR 35-5
CAPM 50-17
CAPM 60-1

All are on E-Services and the CAP Members webpage.
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Michael P. McEleney
Lt Col CAP
MSG USA (Retired)
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« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2019, 02:09:36 AM »

And an open forum is not the appropriate place to discuss base access procedures.
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lordmonar
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Posts: 10,713

« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2019, 02:49:40 AM »

And an open forum is not the appropriate place to discuss base access procedures.

I disagree.   Civilian Access procedures are not OPSEC nor are they classified in anyway.

A google search for my base came up with a Air Force web page describing how civilians can access the base.

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PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP
Eclipse
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« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2019, 03:18:08 AM »

A google search for my base came up with a Air Force web page describing how civilians can access the base.

As has been pointed out in messages about this and related issues, if the base / service / activity
chooses to make that info public, fine.  Let them be the source, not CT or CAP.

General knowledge is one thing, anything past what I wrote is another.
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TheSkyHornet
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« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2019, 02:50:46 PM »

I'll take it beyond what Eclipse offered

Quote
-Are flight officers officers?

Flight Officers are officers in the same sense that Second Lieutenants are officers; however, they're generally treated more like warrant officer hybrids in the sense of authority (and I'm saying generally...typically...usually...not 100% of the time). They're often assigned a technical or supporting role without a lot of direct oversight of people because they're still in that learning phase due to their age. I have yet to see a Flight Officer assigned as Deputy Commander for Cadets or Deputy Commander for Seniors. I think that would be an inherently bad idea.

Quote
-If I transition to a SM with only the Wright Bros. award, what rank would I be?

For any transition to senior membership, you'll come straight in as "Senior Member" (without grade) until the applicable paperwork is processed and any training requirements completed for promotion.

*You cannot hold an NCO or "full" Officer rank until you are 21-years-old.

Once you complete Level I of the senior member professional development program, you would be a Flight Officer so long as you have had at least 6 months in CAP (at any grade).

If you wish to advance to become a Technical Flight Officer, then Senior Flight Officer, you must complete the higher-level professional development tiers and have additional time-in-grade as a Flight Officer.

Quote
-Are CAP members considered Airman, [just like Navy is sailor, Army is soldier, etc.]

In the sense of the whole "Total Force" thing, yes.
In the sense of military (or federal) service, no.

Generally speaking, officers in the U.S. Navy are not "sailors;" they're naval officers (and you would not call them 'sailor'). Different branches hold different traditions on this (whereas Army officers are regarded as soldiers). --- Funny enough, naval officers are trained to recite the Sailor's Creed, which includes the line "I am a United States Sailor" in the opening.

You're best to refer to yourself, and others, as "Members in Civil Air Patrol" and not "Airmen in Civil Air Patrol." It's not wrong, exactly, but not highly received, or so it seems.

Quote
- Can a cadet member transition to a SM and be a NCO without enlisting?

No. CAP NCOs must have been at least of the E-4 pay grade in the U.S. military.

Ironically, the Air Force is the only branch whose E-4 grade is not an NCO, whereas in all other military branches, an E-4 can be an NCO (in the Army, E-4s are either Specialists which are not an NCO or Corporals which are NCOs). Lance Corporals in the Marine Corps (E-3) are not NCOs, but Corporals (E-4) are NCOs.

Quote
-How do SM NCOs promote?

Basically, the same way that senior member officers promote: training requirements, and time in grade.

There are some exceptions as to how high NCOs can go in CAP, which depend on their echelon assignment. You won't see Chief Master Sergeants assigned to squadrons, just like you won't see Colonels assigned to squadrons.

Quote
-How do Senior Members Promote and how fast?

Remember that promotions are based on eligibility plus readiness.

Eligibility to promote is made up of two components:
- Time in grade
- Training/experience

Time in grade can very from early promotions (6 months) to later promotions (5 years)

Training requirements include a mixture of professional development classes, service in a specific duty position, and technical knowledge.

For me to advance, I have to take knowledge exams, attend classes, and instruct training courses, as well as serve in related duty positions to gain higher technical ratings in my specialty.

Quote
-What what rank and requirements are required to make your own squadron?

You don't need a rank necessarily, but you need to be a senior member to be a unit commander (NCOs cannot hold command).

Squadrons require approval to be started, and you have to have a certain number of members depending on the type of unit (senior, cadet, or composite squadron). Squadrons that do not meet these roster sizes will become flights, and are overseen by group or wing commanders.

Quote
-How do cadets with squadrons on base get on base with no military ID?

There's an application process to be on the Entry Authorization List. Aside from that, this is a "go research" or "figure it out" type thing. Let's not jive too much on how to get on military bases. You need authorization; that's it.

Quote
-Are squadron Commanders paid?

There are only a handful of paid staff in CAP.

Squadron commanders are unpaid volunteers like the rest of us. "Volunteer" means you are donating your own time, resources, and/or labor.

We actually end up spending quite a bit from our own pockets over the course of the year to support our squadrons, whether providing supplies, paying for meals, or covering activity costs. Not to mention all the other crap we actually have to pay for (training weekends, uniforms, membership fees etc.). We're a charitable bunch.

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francisderosa16
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Posts: 115

« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2019, 05:04:19 PM »

Thank you so much everybody, and yes, I tried looking at regulations, I just didn't understand.
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francisderosa16
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Posts: 115

« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2019, 05:05:17 PM »

Wow...


Let me ask you some questions. What are you trying to get out of your CAP experience? What knowledge or skills do you have to pass on to cadets or use to contribute to the operation of a CAP squadron (because SMs are expected to be mentors and actually run the programs)?


If your goal is rank, prestige, and money, might I suggest your local recruiter.


If your goal is to give back to the program in a meaningful way, I would first ask you if you have used the cadet program to its fullest to better yourself prior to becoming a SM.


If you are considering becoming an adult member/mentor, you will be held to a much higher standard of self-reliance. For example, nearly every one of your questions can be answered by reading the appropriate regulation on the NHQ website. You also could take advantage of local resources by asking your chain of command.


I would strongly opine that you may greatly benefit from additional time as a cadet. There are many lessons to learn before you are ready to lead others.


Good luck.


I want to serve my country, that's why I joined CAP.
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Capmonkey
Forum Regular

Posts: 185

« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2019, 05:14:43 PM »

Thank you so much everybody, and yes, I tried looking at regulations, I just didn't understand.

If you don't understand regulations, or matters contained within, that's what your chain of command is for... can we please shut this thread down now?
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Eclipse
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« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2019, 05:40:31 PM »

Why?
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Capmonkey
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Posts: 185

« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2019, 06:16:51 PM »

It's this same rabbit hole with the OP. He frequently asks questions that can be answered either by a simple search in the regulations, or asking his chain of command. This isn't an attack on the OP, it's just the same rabbit hole every time. If the chain of command isn't utilized now, it won't ever be in the future, and that's for both CAP and real life. If it's not locked, I understand and will stand down on my case.
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francisderosa16
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Posts: 115

« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2019, 06:36:00 PM »

I am sorry I have offended you.
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etodd
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« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2019, 07:40:50 PM »

..

Capmonkey gave some great advice. Its also what I struggle with. The CAP system is reflective of the military where "chain of command" also means chain of information.  Too often I myself have gone online to inquire about any number of matters, when the first place to ask should have been people in my Squadron who are either above me, or work in the area of my question and could help me. Same with questions about regs.  I need to look there first and if not sure, ask people in my Squadron.  One reason is that some things vary a little by Wing and Squadron, so advice online, may not be the precise answer.

Sure, there are still lots of things to be asked in CAPTalk, but its more conversational usually here. For hard facts about a particular situation, grass roots is always best.

This thread helps remind me of what "I" should do.  Thanks.
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Capmonkey
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Posts: 185

« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2019, 08:09:58 PM »

I'm guilty of it too, so don't feel bad. It comes with time, since I've been in for 5 years. Just work on it. Progress, not perfection, cadet :)
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abdsp51
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« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2019, 08:58:51 PM »

There are some exceptions as to how high NCOs can go in CAP, which depend on their echelon assignment. You won't see Chief Master Sergeants assigned to squadrons, just like you won't see Colonels assigned to squadrons.

Wanna bet?  I had 2 Cols at one time assigned to my squadron and here in CAWG there is a CMSgt assigned to a squadron and he was a CC. 
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