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CAP Talk  |  Operations  |  Aviation & Flying Activities  |  Topic: ADSB-GOTCHAS AOPA article
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Live2Learn
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Posts: 728

« on: February 10, 2019, 05:43:15 AM »

I suppose I can assume CAP will equip all corporate aircraft with ADSB-OUT by 2020 Jan 01.  But, stuff happens.  So some of the CAP fleet of powered aircraft might miss the prom.

Several members own aircraft, some may yet be among the large majority of owners with non-compliant planes. 

This AOPA article raises some very interesting problems that might contribute to someone sumbling into a violation. I expect it wouldn't be a reach to think of other plausible problem scenarios.

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2019/march/pilot/ads-b-gotchas?_ga=2.249798790.1287504744.1549774379-418280182.1517513152
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NIN
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« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2019, 08:35:24 PM »

As of last Tuesday, 445 were complete with 115 in the pipeline.

I'm kind of doubting we'll miss the party.
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Darin Ninness, Lt Col, CAP
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The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2019 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.
Live2Learn
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 728

« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2019, 04:04:29 AM »

As of last Tuesday, 445 were complete with 115 in the pipeline.

I'm kind of doubting we'll miss the party.

One every 3 days.  That's a pretty good clip.   Other than hand held radios do CAP gliders have any battery powered avonics... like transponders?  Will any gliders get ADSB battery powered units in the foreseeable future?
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PHall
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« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2019, 05:11:19 AM »

As of last Tuesday, 445 were complete with 115 in the pipeline.

I'm kind of doubting we'll miss the party.

One every 3 days.  That's a pretty good clip.   Other than hand held radios do CAP gliders have any battery powered avonics... like transponders?  Will any gliders get ADSB battery powered units in the foreseeable future?

Sailplanes aren't required to have transponders so no, they won't get ADSB.
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Live2Learn
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Posts: 728

« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2019, 02:27:07 PM »


...Other than hand held radios do CAP gliders have any battery powered avonics... like transponders?  Will any gliders get ADSB battery powered units in the foreseeable future?

Sailplanes aren't required to have transponders so no, they won't get ADSB.

I kinda thought that might be the case.  I wondered though, if we'd really thought through that triple fatality Baron crash that occurred almost 5 years ago (24 Feb 2014) that resulted in an $11.9 millon damage award.  Had the Baron been fully ADSB- compliant plus IN, and glider, & tow plane just minimally equipped with -OUT that accident would probably not happened, despite all of the other CAP failings.  Heck (a code word for anti-snow), putting ADSB-OUT in every CAP glider cockpit could very likely prevent a redux of that tragedy... at a tiny fraction of the cost of a similar award.   We should remember that $11.9 million is just what CAP paid for the damage award.  I'd be surprised if defense costs, the cost of the investigation, etc if added to the Court awarded damages pushed the total monetary cost shouldered by CAP by at least a couple hundred $k.

Split seconds matter.  What might that accident have cost CAP if the glider in tow or the tow plane was T-boned at that blind intersection where both good practice and the local (ignored) airport SOP/reg required a radio equipped observer during glider tow ops? 

Yes, the FARs don't require ADSB-OUT in gliders.  Radios aren't required... but they're present in CAP glider cockpits.  It seems odd that in our organization where (quoting from a former director of safety) “safety is beyond price" we're falling back on the minimalist requirements 14 CFR rather than making that relatively small investment that would make another LaGrange disaster unlikely.

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PHall
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« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2019, 04:09:10 PM »

Your typical sailplane is the ultimate stealth aircraft, very little, if any, radar return.
One solution our safety guys at March Air Reserve Base came up with that actually got a little buy in from the sailplane guys was to glue some aluminium foil to the inside of the rear fuselage.
About six square feet per side seemed to work. Good old 3M spray adhesive seems to work and the whole thing weighs about 3 or 4 ounces max.
The approach control guys report that the sailplanes show up on radar more consistently with this little mod.
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Live2Learn
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« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2019, 05:33:15 PM »

...glue some aluminium foil to the inside of the rear fuselage.
About six square feet per side seemed to work. Good old 3M spray adhesive seems to work and the whole thing weighs about 3 or 4 ounces max.
The approach control guys report that the sailplanes show up on radar more consistently with this little mod.

Great creative solution.  Essentially free — very nice!  Was it done with just a log book entry for required documentation? 

It doesn't address non-radar environments common at a lot of rural airports, especially in the western states.  That takes us back to the original Mark One Eyeballs and S 'n A.  Just a flight or two with ADSB-IN demonstrates how likely S 'n A will fail to detect even nearby ADSB-OUT compliant aircraft.

IOW, there gotta be a better way. 

In case you might be interested, here's the accident report, an excerpt from the trial court opinion, and a few additional details from that horrific Baron accident.  One of the anonymous comments located at the end of the Kathryn's Report material says that CAP "settled" with the estates of each front seat pilot for another $6 million each...  bringing the total payout to $24 million.   How many ultra light weight battery operated panel mount ADSB-OUT units could CAP purchase, install, and maintain in its gliders for 5% or less than that single payout? 

http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2017/08/judge-awards-119-million-in-suit.html
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CAP Talk  |  Operations  |  Aviation & Flying Activities  |  Topic: ADSB-GOTCHAS AOPA article
 


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