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CAP Talk  |  Operations  |  Emergency Services & Operations  |  Topic: MS initial training - on local pilotsí dime?
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etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,851

« Reply #20 on: February 04, 2019, 09:44:28 PM »



Not every A12 is a pilot proficiency sortie.  Plenty are flown with a fully qualified pilot
who is also an SET for the benefit of APs, GIIEP, MOs, and in some case even Ground Teams.

I hope so. As a MP & SET, I've been doing the above. :)
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MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO - ESO

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etodd
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« Reply #21 on: February 04, 2019, 09:46:21 PM »


F91 evaluations are not conducted on A12 sorties.

Yeah .. but the MISSION number our Wing has us doing this, is setup for A12s only and when entering a sortie doesn't give me a place to change it.

So ... I just do as I'm told, and go fly.  ;)


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BJD
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Unit: NER-NH-056

« Reply #22 on: February 04, 2019, 09:47:45 PM »

If your CAP USAF LR allows that, good for you.  We are not able to do so.
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etodd
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« Reply #23 on: February 04, 2019, 09:58:13 PM »

If your CAP USAF LR allows that, good for you.  We are not able to do so.

Its amazing the differences on many topics where Wings can vary widely. And then within Wings, how the Squadrons can vary as well.  Being a strong believer in grass roots, often it works out best that way. LOL
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coudano
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« Reply #24 on: February 05, 2019, 01:20:45 AM »

our Wing has an existing Mission called "Misc", that any CAP pilot can go into and enter a C-12  "Sortie"

Yep you said it here.   C-12.
That's pilot self-funded (or sub-commercial-pilot minimum pro rata share funded)

Yes you can complete aircrew training like this.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #25 on: February 05, 2019, 03:23:22 AM »


F91 evaluations are not conducted on A12 sorties.

Yeah .. but the MISSION number our Wing has us doing this, is setup for A12s only and when entering a sortie doesn't give me a place to change it.

So ... I just do as I'm told, and go fly.  ;)

Doing 91s and 5s on the A12 is a big no-no "doing what I'm told" could wind up being an issue during a CI.

By design the initials are supposed to be member-funded, and re-currency funded separately.
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etodd
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« Reply #26 on: February 05, 2019, 05:05:29 AM »



Doing 91s and 5s on the A12 is a big no-no ...


So after some inquiry, I've been pointed to another Mission Number that will indeed put this in as an A-7. It was not obvious at all.

Thanks Eclipse, for the heads up.
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hfriday
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Unit: NER-VT-034

« Reply #27 on: February 05, 2019, 04:15:41 PM »

Thanks, BJD - a lot of this information has gone further over my head as it has progressed, but that's just part of being the new guy. I still have to learn the mission codes with all their nuances and caveats.

One ironic glitch in all this is that I AM my unit's ES officer (and PD officer), but I'm still figuring things out and don't actually know how to access my counterpart at wing for ES. We are extremely small, and so once I hit a dead-end with the regs or WMIRS, I usually come to CAPTalk to see if someone can clarify procedure. Sometimes that's a yes - there's a ton of experience here - sometimes a no.

I have been to a couple of wing SAREXes equipped to fly and for various reasons have been tasked instead to ground teams. I have no heartburn with working on a GTM qualification, of course, but with no SET in my unit for that, I can't make any progress BETWEEN SAREXes on that. With my ground/familiarization stuff complete for MS, I'm eager to do something that feels productive, but not if I have to pay $88/hour to do it...that's just more than I can really swing.

It's slow going, but we'll stay the course with the SAREXes and see how it comes together.
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BJD
Recruit

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Unit: NER-NH-056

« Reply #28 on: February 05, 2019, 05:46:00 PM »

Your squadron CC should be able to get you the contact information for the wing DOS.  Again, you should not have to pay anything for MS training.

Good luck.
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Tim Day
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Unit: MER-VA-102

Prince William Composite Squadron
« Reply #29 on: February 05, 2019, 08:50:20 PM »

Our Wing has passed a sheet of amplifying instructions that clarifies that the proficiency profiles are considered for the proficiency of the pilot. I believe - but cannot prove - that this interpretation was coordinated with CAP-USAF or at least CAP/DO. That may be because we are typically allocated only 1.5 hours per month per Mission Pilot, with the rationale for the funding being pilot proficency. Bottom line, your wing has control over how that mission is flown. In our wing, A12 sorties are requested by MPs and approved by Wing Ops. I suppose that as an MP I could request an A12 sortie for the proficiency of an MO, then conduct training with an MS trainee but it would be up to Ops to approve that request.

There are also USAF-funded sorties for ES training, which are A5 sorties. As an MP who is a MO&MS evaluator, I can fly a USAF-funded A5 sortie and sign of both MO & MS tasks. Sorties on the ES Training mission are approved by our Wing ES Officer. Or, I could fly a self-funded C12 sortie on the "VA Misc" mission, take along a trainee, and sign off tasks.

If you pull up WMIRS, you could find the "SAR Training" mission - it will list "A5" in the mission symbol column. Click on the mission number and on the mission information page you should be able to find the name of the person who requested the mission. At the bottom of the page, you should see a "Customer Information" section with that person's email address and phone number. The "customer" should be able to vector you to the right person to request a sortie and fill you in on the correct process.
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Tim Day
Lt Col CAP
Prince William Composite Squadron Commander
etodd
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« Reply #30 on: February 05, 2019, 11:06:29 PM »

Our Wing has passed a sheet of amplifying instructions  ....


As I've said earlier, looks like every Wing does things differently. All within regs of course, just different procedures. Some simpler and streamlined, others more burdensome.  I always wondered why I would see "former" CAP pilots who complained about so much bureacry and paperwork. I never understood what they were talking about.Since then, I've learned the differences in Squadron personalities, and Wings.  Thats why I encourage newcomers to try and visit several Squadrons if possible before deciding to join. Its a good thing. :)
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