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Author Topic: Youth Aviation Initiative & Pilot training in CAP  (Read 1068 times)
Razerex
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« on: December 18, 2018, 06:02:06 AM »

It seems CAP has been promoting its Youth Aviation Initiative a lot of late, with grants from various sources to help address the pilot shortage, but what they don't say is how to go about taking advantage of these programs. I've looked through some of the archives here on obtaining a pilot's license through CAP, and wonder how the Youth Aviation Initiative changes or facilitates this process. What if you're a cadet who have completed O-Flights, and the info such as the EAA vids, etc, but is not yet old enough for National Flight Academy? Are there still options to pursue pilot training for the younger cadets, AND take advantage of the Youth Aviation Initiatives while waiting to be old enough?
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mdickinson
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« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2018, 12:09:58 PM »

The minimum age for national flight academy (glider track or balloon track) is 14.

A truly aviation-obsessed cadet will do as many O-flights as he has the opportunity to do, and use a flight simulator (his own or one at his squadron) every chance he gets, and will attend basic encampment in time to register for the first NFA-glider or Nfa-Balloon after he turns 14. I understand there are also a few NFA glider advanced track, where a 15 or 16 year old can solo a glider.

National flight academy (power track) has a minimum age of 16. A cadet attending NFA-power who wants to maximize his chance of soloing will already have attended one or two NFA-Glider or NFA-balloon before heading to NFA-power.

I instructed at an NFA powered track in Virginia a couple years ago, and a student who was assigned to me was the first one st the academy to solo. The reason it took him less than 7 hours to do it? He had attended NFA-glider the previous summer, and Afterwards he immediately joined a local glider club near his home, and kept soaring every weekend well into the fall, getting to solo a glider by the end of the year. There I see no better preparation for learning to fly a Cessna than learning to fly a glider first!
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Razerex
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« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2018, 03:01:28 AM »

Thank you for the info.

It looks like to get a Student Certificate (required for NFA power track), one must be 16, however, the Mary Feik scholarship (I understand it's female only) has a minimum age of 15.  How does that work if you can't even get a Student Certificate until 16? I understand it says, "This scholarship can be used for flight training at a local FBO, training on CAP aircraft with a CAP instructor, or at a flight academy." Does that mean if the cadet were to do flight school with CAP CFI, she wouldn't need the Student Certificate? Would you recommend at least getting started with ground school now, before being old enough for NFA power, and slowly chip away at the requirements, (while attending glider track)?

I've also read here that NFA power is a good bang for the buck as it covers ground school and flight hours, etc so would getting a head start before NFA be "not the best idea?" Would a cadet be better off waiting till NFA to get started, or better off getting at least ground school out of the way?

Being completely new to aviation, I'm not even sure where to start, minimum ages, etc.
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Stonewall
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« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2018, 03:18:35 AM »

The minimum age for national flight academy (glider track or balloon track) is 14.

A truly aviation-obsessed cadet will do as many O-flights as he has the opportunity to do, and use a flight simulator (his own or one at his squadron) every chance he gets, and will attend basic encampment in time to register for the first NFA-glider or Nfa-Balloon after he turns 14. I understand there are also a few NFA glider advanced track, where a 15 or 16 year old can solo a glider.

National flight academy (power track) has a minimum age of 16. A cadet attending NFA-power who wants to maximize his chance of soloing will already have attended one or two NFA-Glider or NFA-balloon before heading to NFA-power.

I instructed at an NFA powered track in Virginia a couple years ago, and a student who was assigned to me was the first one st the academy to solo. The reason it took him less than 7 hours to do it? He had attended NFA-glider the previous summer, and Afterwards he immediately joined a local glider club near his home, and kept soaring every weekend well into the fall, getting to solo a glider by the end of the year. There I see no better preparation for learning to fly a Cessna than learning to fly a glider first!

I love this information, thank you. My son joined CAP on his 12th birthday (August), so he has to wait 3 summers before he can attend NFA glider/balloon. He won't turn 14 until the end of 2021, so until then he plans to max out O-flights, and anything else he can do. He attends a Winter Encampment in 2 weeks, and then will attend summer encampment as support staff. He has hit the ground running, but is bummed due to some of the age restrictions and where his birthday is...the end of summer. Sorry, bud, can't change your birthday, but you're 12 and have already done O-Flights, NCO Academy, a couple of bivouacs, and about to go to encampment.

Looking forward to NFA for him.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2018, 03:22:58 AM »

It's so interesting the contrast and motivations of CAP cadets.

Some can't get into an airplane fast enough or ever enough, will burn dinos in any way or place they
can - 99's, EAA, Academies, etc., etc., and others can't be bothered to even show up
for their 5 powered rides when they have a plane and a pilot at their home squadron
and O-Rides are run during meetings.
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etodd
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« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2018, 04:58:26 AM »

Is the 5 O'Rides a minimum or a max? If a max, a 13 year old could max out in a year or two and then what for the next few years? Sure, back seats, if open, but anyone wanting to be a pilot wants to be up front.

I personally am trying to get our Cadets up at least twice a year. After their 5, I want to keep them going, even if it means going C-12.
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Spaceman3750
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« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2018, 10:32:23 AM »

Is the 5 O'Rides a minimum or a max? If a max, a 13 year old could max out in a year or two and then what for the next few years? Sure, back seats, if open, but anyone wanting to be a pilot wants to be up front.

There is a max limit of 5 funded powered and 5 funded glider orientation flights.
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mdickinson
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« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2018, 11:19:00 AM »

Is the 5 O'Rides a minimum or a max?

There is a max limit of 5 funded front seat O-flights in powered aircraft and 5 funded glider orientation flights. There is no limit on the number of times a cadet can go on O-flights in the back seat of powered aircraft.

FTFY!  :D

Also note that O-flights are available only to cadets who have not yet turned 18.

Once they turn 18, they can still fly in CAP aircraft for free, if serving as one of the following:
- Scanner (trainee or qualified) on a mission (training or actual)
- Observer (trainee or qualified) on a mission (training or actual)
- Transport Mission Pilot trainee on a mission (training or actual)
- SAR/DR Mission Pilot (trainee or qualified) on a mission (training or actual)
- CAP Instructor Pilot (when giving dual instruction to a senior member) (powered aircraft or glider)

And all cadets 14 and and older can also fly CAP aircraft (powered, glider, or balloon) not-for-free, if they are taking flight instruction from a CAP instructor pilot. They pay for the hourly rate of the aircraft, plus the actual cost of fuel. The instruction is free.
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mdickinson
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« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2018, 11:29:12 AM »

My son joined CAP on his 12th birthday (August), so he has to wait 3 summers before he can attend NFA glider/balloon. He won't turn 14 until the end of 2021, so until then he plans to max out O-flights, and anything else he can do.
[...]
Looking forward to NFA for him.

In the meantime, he can go to the local glider club, if you have one near you, and take lessons there. It will make his week at NFA-glider more productive if he has been up in a glider several times (especially in the last month before the NFA).

A cadet near me got involved with the local glider club at age 13. They gave him a student membership as a scholarship, and he was out there every weekend taking lessons with the instructors, helping put the equipment away at the end of the day, etc. They were so impressed with his interest and dedication that they kept the club open one extra week in the fall just so that he could solo... on his 14th birthday!

So he didn't go the NFA-Glider route. But after two more years of solo glider flights, he was extremely well prepared to solo when he attended an NFA-Powered at age 16.

Fast forward 10 years... he is now a Commercial Pilot at age 24.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2018, 08:31:58 PM by mdickinson » Report to moderator   Logged
Spaceman3750
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« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2018, 11:29:49 AM »

Is the 5 O'Rides a minimum or a max?

There is a max limit of 5 funded front seat O-flights in powered aircraft and 5 funded glider orientation flights. There is no limit on the number of times a cadet can go on O-flights in the back seat of powered aircraft.

FTFY!  :D

Yep! Except he specifically discounted back seat rides so I didnít mention it.
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mdickinson
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« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2018, 11:52:46 AM »

to get a Student Certificate (required for NFA power track), one must be 16, however, the Mary Feik scholarship (I understand it's female only) has a minimum age of 15.  How does that work if you can't even get a Student Certificate until 16?
A 15 year old cadet can take lessons in CAP aircraft (powered or glider) with a CAP instructor; can take lessons at the local flight school/FBO, or with a local independent instructor, or at the local glider club; can attend ground school at the local flight school/FBO; and can attend an NFA-Glider. The scholarship can be used for any of those purposes.

Quote
it says "This scholarship can be used for flight training at a local FBO, training on CAP aircraft with a CAP instructor, or at a flight academy." Does that mean if the cadet were to do flight school with CAP CFI, she wouldn't need the Student Certificate?
A student pilot certificate is not needed to begin taking lessons. It is needed only in order to solo. New flight students (in gliders or airplanes) typically take lessons for several months before they are ready for solo (the highly structured program at the NFA is a notable exception). Therefore it is common for a flight student (of any age) to not go get his student pilot certificate until he has had ten or more flight lessons (when the flight instructor says "you'll be ready for solo soon - better go get your medical."). 

It is also common for 15 year olds to take lessons with the goal of soloing soon after they turn 16. Sometimes they have been ready for solo since age 15 1/2, and they schedule their medical exam (to get the student pilot certificate) for their 16th birthday!

Quote
Would you recommend at least getting started with ground school now, before being old enough for NFA power, and slowly chip away at the requirements, (while attending glider track)?

While NFA Power attempts to include a full private pilot ground school, in my experience the amount of information absorbed is a lot less than a typical ground school course given at the local flight school. The hours spent on ground school at NFA are compressed and the cadets are sometimes tired, and some cadets miss some portions when their instructional flights need to be rescheduled (often due to weather). So the best bet might be to get what you can get out of the ground school at NFA, then take a full ground school course at home.

Quote
I've also read here that NFA power is a good bang for the buck as it covers ground school and flight hours, etc so would getting a head start before NFA be "not the best idea?" Would a cadet be better off waiting till NFA to get started, or better off getting at least ground school out of the way?
There is no harm in attending ground school prior to attending NFA. The main factor that will help contribute to a successful NFA is getting some stick time with an instructor beforehand (preferably in the same type being used at the NFA - most likely a Cessna 172 or a Super Blanik glider). This is by no means required - most cadets attending NFA-glider arrive with zero stick time, and most cadets attending NFA-powered arrive with their only stick time being a few Orientation Flights.
 
Quote
Being completely new to aviation, I'm not even sure where to start, minimum ages, etc.
You came to the right place to ask! Lots of experienced people here who are happy to give answers. Also chat with the pilots at the local squadron as well (flight instructors if possible).
« Last Edit: December 19, 2018, 08:33:51 PM by mdickinson » Report to moderator   Logged
etodd
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« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2018, 07:04:01 PM »

Is the 5 O'Rides a minimum or a max?

There is a max limit of 5 funded front seat O-flights in powered aircraft and 5 funded glider orientation flights. There is no limit on the number of times a cadet can go on O-flights in the back seat of powered aircraft.

FTFY!  :D

Yep! Except he specifically discounted back seat rides so I didnít mention it.

Exactly. Some folks don't read a post before replying. LOL

We try to fly Cadets at least twice a year, so a Cadet joining at 13 could be finished with the five front seat rides while still just 14, and then go 4 more years before sitting up front again.  Thats not at all what our recruiting literature implies. We show brochures that make it look like Cadets fly "often".

So yes, even if I'm paying out of pocket, we'll keep flying Cadet front seat rides, keeping their interest in being a pilot up.
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PHall
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« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2018, 07:37:41 PM »

So yes, even if I'm paying out of pocket, we'll keep flying Cadet front seat rides, keeping their interest in being a pilot up.


You are a rare one. Most of the Orientation Pilots I've dealt with won't do that.
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etodd
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« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2018, 08:03:58 PM »

So yes, even if I'm paying out of pocket, we'll keep flying Cadet front seat rides, keeping their interest in being a pilot up.


You are a rare one. Most of the Orientation Pilots I've dealt with won't do that.

Its why I'm here. To help the youth get interested in aviation.  Its why I'm active in EAA, as a Young Eagles pilot. Nothing better than to have a plane full of wide-eyed and giggly 8 year old boys and girls getting their first airplane ride and saying they want to be a pilot one day.  :)
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Eclipse
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« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2018, 08:26:12 PM »

So yes, even if I'm paying out of pocket, we'll keep flying Cadet front seat rides, keeping their interest in being a pilot up.

You are a rare one. Most of the Orientation Pilots I've dealt with won't do that.

Having members pay for O-Rides, or anything else for other members is something I have always
strongly discouraged because it generally ends in feelings of inappropriate "ownership" and hurt feelings.

There is plenty of money in the system, and plenty of ways to creatively fund flying without CAP pilots reaching in their
pockets.

This is one of those "seemed like a good idea at the time things" that really isn't.
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etodd
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« Reply #15 on: December 19, 2018, 08:44:58 PM »



There is plenty of money in the system, and plenty of ways to creatively fund flying without CAP pilots reaching in their
pockets.


OK. Thanks. You have my ear.  Please tell me of some creative ways I can get Cadets more funded front seat rides.
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