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CAP Talk  |  Operations  |  Aviation & Flying Activities  |  Topic: THE NEVADA TRIANGLE Mystery of remote US zone near Area 51 where more than 2,000
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Author Topic: THE NEVADA TRIANGLE Mystery of remote US zone near Area 51 where more than 2,000  (Read 1218 times)
OldGuy
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« on: November 30, 2018, 02:16:34 PM »

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7858782/mystery-of-remote-us-zone-near-area-51-where-more-than-2000-planes-have-vanished-in-the-past-60-years/
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Live2Learn
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« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2018, 04:27:07 PM »

Well, we know what happened to Elvis, so I guess he wasn't among the missing.  And we know what happened to Steve Fosset because some hikers found his wallet three years later.  And we know that filing (then flying) a flight plan is a good way to be found (Steve F. proved that since he DIDN'T tell anyone where he was going).  And we know that rough, unroaded, forested & desert terrain that is largely unroaded and unpopulated (by people) makes it tough to find missing aircraft that don't have flight plans or fly IFR or have 406 ELTs... so is this more validation of what we know?  :o
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MSG Mac
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« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2018, 06:12:59 PM »

Former  National Vice Commander Ed Lewis and CAWG Commander DeCamp are among those lost in those mountains.
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Michael P. McEleney
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PHall
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« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2018, 08:07:42 PM »

Former  National Vice Commander Ed Lewis and CAWG Commander DeCamp are among those lost in those mountains.

Col DeCamp was the Nevada Wing Commander.
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SarDragon
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« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2018, 09:51:37 PM »

Former  National Vice Commander Ed Lewis and CAWG Commander DeCamp are among those lost in those mountains.

Col DeCamp was the Nevada Wing Commander.

And they didn't just vanish. The wreck was very visible, and less than five miles from where Carole Lombard's plane hit the same mountain.
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Dave Bowles
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PHall
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« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2018, 10:58:31 PM »

Former  National Vice Commander Ed Lewis and CAWG Commander DeCamp are among those lost in those mountains.

Col DeCamp was the Nevada Wing Commander.

And they didn't just vanish. The wreck was very visible, and less than five miles from where Carole Lombard's plane hit the same mountain.

IIRC they were found within hours. The ELT did it's job.
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Lord of the North
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« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2018, 07:01:55 AM »

As well as the aircraft that saw the fire from the crash.
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lordmonar
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« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2018, 07:47:54 AM »

Former  National Vice Commander Ed Lewis and CAWG Commander DeCamp are among those lost in those mountains.

Col DeCamp was the Nevada Wing Commander.

And they didn't just vanish. The wreck was very visible, and less than five miles from where Carole Lombard's plane hit the same mountain.

IIRC they were found within hours. The ELT did it's job.
Their aircraft was observed as it hit the mountain.   SAR was on scene withing an hour.
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PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP
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Live2Learn
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« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2018, 06:23:01 PM »

Former  National Vice Commander Ed Lewis and CAWG Commander DeCamp are among those lost in those mountains.

Col DeCamp was the Nevada Wing Commander.

And they didn't just vanish. The wreck was very visible, and less than five miles from where Carole Lombard's plane hit the same mountain.

I don't recall any mention in the NTSB report of the aircraft ELT playing any role in locating the wreckage or in determining that a crash had occurred.  The NTSB report states that "A local law enforcement officer/pilot, who was assigned to the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department's Air Support/Search and Rescue Unit, reported that on the evening of the accident, while flying a helicopter patrol mission and heading in a south-southwest direction, he observed a large fireball/explosion in the vicinity of Mount Potosi, elevation 8,514 feet msl. The officer stated that his partner also observed and confirmed that it was an explosion. The officer reported that while en route to the area of the fire he observed additional fireballs, and upon arriving at the accident site his partner confirmed that the fire was the result of an airplane crash."

Still good advice today, the NTSB report quotes from avionics documentation:  "The Pilot's Guide for the G1000 states: "CAUTION: Use of Terrain Proximity information for primary terrain avoidance is prohibited. The Terrain Proximity Map is intended only to enhance situational awareness. It is the pilot's responsibility to provide terrain avoidance at all times."   The report also reminds us that "The flight was departing on a VFR flight plan and was receiving VFR flight following services ..."  We should all remember that VFR FF is contoller workload limited, and that ATC has NO responsibility to provide terrian avoidance.

Because of the justifiably high esteem we have for these two former leaders I've noticed great reluctance (in my wing, at least) to hold a frank and candid conversation about their final flight.  IMHO, this leads us to ignore their last gift... the lessons we should draw from their passing.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2018, 06:29:54 PM by Live2Learn » Report to moderator   Logged
Mitchell 1969
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« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2018, 05:18:50 PM »

Former  National Vice Commander Ed Lewis and CAWG Commander DeCamp are among those lost in those mountains.

Col DeCamp was the Nevada Wing Commander.

And they didn't just vanish. The wreck was very visible, and less than five miles from where Carole Lombard's plane hit the same mountain.

I don't recall any mention in the NTSB report of the aircraft ELT playing any role in locating the wreckage or in determining that a crash had occurred.  The NTSB report states that "A local law enforcement officer/pilot, who was assigned to the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department's Air Support/Search and Rescue Unit, reported that on the evening of the accident, while flying a helicopter patrol mission and heading in a south-southwest direction, he observed a large fireball/explosion in the vicinity of Mount Potosi, elevation 8,514 feet msl. The officer stated that his partner also observed and confirmed that it was an explosion. The officer reported that while en route to the area of the fire he observed additional fireballs, and upon arriving at the accident site his partner confirmed that the fire was the result of an airplane crash."

Still good advice today, the NTSB report quotes from avionics documentation:  "The Pilot's Guide for the G1000 states: "CAUTION: Use of Terrain Proximity information for primary terrain avoidance is prohibited. The Terrain Proximity Map is intended only to enhance situational awareness. It is the pilot's responsibility to provide terrain avoidance at all times."   The report also reminds us that "The flight was departing on a VFR flight plan and was receiving VFR flight following services ..."  We should all remember that VFR FF is contoller workload limited, and that ATC has NO responsibility to provide terrian avoidance.

Because of the justifiably high esteem we have for these two former leaders I've noticed great reluctance (in my wing, at least) to hold a frank and candid conversation about their final flight.  IMHO, this leads us to ignore their last gift... the lessons we should draw from their passing.

I did not know Colonel De Camp, but I knew Colonel Lewis. If there was a chance that anyone could learn anything from his fatal experience, Ed Lewis would be the first to say “Sign up, sit down, listen, pay attention and take notes!”


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