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I_Am_Twigs
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« on: November 23, 2018, 06:44:19 PM »

So, my squadron has been wanting to start up a Color Guard for a while, I've kinda got one going, but I'm wanting to change it to a Honor Guard that is mainly focused on the Colors Element. I want to change it partly because the name "Honor Guard" itself is pretty appealing, and I'm hoping that it will help reel in a few more cadets onto the team.

Anyways, my question is, what are the recommended steps to take to create one, and what is some of the equipment I need to be successful? I've already read through CAPP 52-8 (CAP Unit Honor Guard Program), CAPM 39-1 (for the Honor Guard Uniform),APR 60-1 (Cadet Program Management), AFMAN 36-2203 (as CAPP 52-8 instructs), and the USAF Honor Guard Manual (as CAPP 52-8 instructs). At this point I'm just looking for good equipment and some advice.
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Mitchell #68874
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« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2018, 06:49:39 PM »

I want to change it partly because the name "Honor Guard" itself is pretty appealing,

This is not likely to be a justification that your Wing CC will accept, and his approval is the first step in
creating an Honor Guard.
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I_Am_Twigs
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« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2018, 06:52:36 PM »

My Wing CC would be all over this, he loves to compete with the other wings in my Region, so I'm sure he'll approve. We have yet to find out though! Right now I'm just getting a game plan together, that way we can look good from the start.
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Mitchell #68874
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« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2018, 06:56:06 PM »

Honor Guard is not a competition.

Your best bet is to attend an HGA and worry about a local group afterwards.

You also need a senior member, preferably two, designated as the OIC.
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I_Am_Twigs
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« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2018, 07:13:12 PM »

Honor Guard is not a competition.

Your best bet is to attend an HGA and worry about a local group afterwards.

You also need a senior member, preferably two, designated as the OIC.

Apologies, I'll rephrase that, he likes the cadets to make a wing look good, and a second Honor Guard in the wing would add to the level of "goodness".
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Mitchell #68874
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I_Am_Twigs
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« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2018, 01:26:58 AM »

Well, since that ended quickly I guess I can move onto the equipment I'd need.

I just need something that'll work, meets the requirements of CAPM 39-1 9.6, preferably not from Vanguard, and inexpensive. Any recommendations?
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Mitchell #68874
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« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2018, 01:39:43 AM »

http://www.paradestore.com/
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PHall
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« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2018, 01:42:28 AM »

http://www.paradestore.com/


Bring money, lot's of it...
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I_Am_Twigs
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« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2018, 01:47:37 AM »

http://www.paradestore.com/
http://www.paradestore.com/


Bring money, lot's of it...

Yup, I've looked at these guys, good equipment, but I'm looking for something a bit less expensive.
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Mitchell #68874
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SarDragon
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« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2018, 04:22:46 AM »

Quality and inexpensive are pretty much mutually exclusive. If you want gear that looks good and performs well over a long period of time, it's gonna cost you.


Another consideration is to instill in your group members that they are working with expensive stuff, and it needs to be treated accordingly. I have seen too much mistreatment of, and "playing around" with, honor/color guard equipment that has caused damage and destruction.
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Dave Bowles
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I_Am_Twigs
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« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2018, 09:48:44 PM »

Quality and inexpensive are pretty much mutually exclusive. If you want gear that looks good and performs well over a long period of time, it's gonna cost you.

I realize that, I'm just trying to find a good price for good stuff, I'll probably end up sticking with the Parade store in the end.

Quote
Another consideration is to instill in your group members that they are working with expensive stuff, and it needs to be treated accordingly. I have seen too much mistreatment of, and "playing around" with, honor/color guard equipment that has caused damage and destruction.

Yea, we try practice with different equipment that we wont be using in the performance, even when we do that I still have them treat the equipment carefully.

Thank you!
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Mitchell #68874
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Slim
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« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2018, 01:24:18 AM »

Thinking back, about five years ago, my unit purchased all new color guard equipment.

American and state flags with proper poles and spade tops
two parade rifles
four flag carriers (two white, two black)
four pistol belts (again two each white and black)
gloves in various sizes also in black and white.

We purchased through Glendale's, aka paradestore.com, and we got out for less than $800.

The purpose of the black gear?  It is identical to the white gear, and is used for practicing without trashing the white performance gear.  And it would give us an option of doing a parade or event in BDUs/ABUs.  We also have several practice parade rifles, including what I call the "Three stooges," where one of our more crafty senior members took pieces of 1"x6" planks, traced the out his M-1 Garand on them, then cut/sanded/shaped them.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2018, 01:28:06 AM by Slim » Report to moderator   Logged

Slim
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« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2018, 02:32:02 AM »

Those practice rifles are important - I bought rifles for encampment probably 13ish years ago
and was struck the other day how they look like brand new.

Protip:  There is not a cadet alive who will not try to spin a rifle if left to their own
devices, nor a senior-member, poster included, which is why either junk toys or
1x6's should be used for everything but game-day.

I like the idea of the black gear - getting white gloves cleaned, without being ruined, can
be a challenge.
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SarDragon
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« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2018, 03:50:18 AM »

OxiClean is the bomb on gloves. It gets rid of most stains, and doesn't degrade the cloth like chlorine bleach does.

As for the gloves themselves, unless you are going to be in a cold environment, wet them before you "go on". For either cotton or poly/cotton gloves, it improves your grip, and helps minimize "drop" situations.
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Dave Bowles
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I_Am_Twigs
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« Reply #14 on: November 25, 2018, 04:59:18 AM »

OxiClean is the bomb on gloves. It gets rid of most stains, and doesn't degrade the cloth like chlorine bleach does.

As for the gloves themselves, unless you are going to be in a cold environment, wet them before you "go on". For either cotton or poly/cotton gloves, it improves your grip, and helps minimize "drop" situations.

I was looking at getting the slip-on "chicken skin" or "gripper" gloves from the parade store.

Also, am I reading these right?

Quote
9.6.1.2. Composition. The honor guard uniform consists of the service dress uniform coat
with epaulets and slacks/trousers, male service cap with Cadet Officer cap device, white ascot with Honor
Guard patch, metallic silver shoulder cord, white pistol belt, white gloves, and a brown non-operating
parade rifle with white leather sling. Helmets or helmet liners will not be used. Either the old or new style
of service dress may be worn; however, all members of an honor guard should be in the same style, if
possible. This uniform is authorized for year-round wear. The colors element flag bearers will wear white
flag slings instead of white pistol belts. The guards will wear pistol belts. See Table 3-1

Quote
9.6.4.10. Parade Rifle. Brown molded polystyrene, non-operating, with white leather sling.
BAYONETS WILL NOT BE USED.

If I am reading them right then the Flag carriers should be white leather, like these:



And the rifle slings should be white leather as well, like these:

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Mitchell #68874
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Slim
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« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2018, 05:47:44 AM »

OxiClean is the bomb on gloves. It gets rid of most stains, and doesn't degrade the cloth like chlorine bleach does.

As for the gloves themselves, unless you are going to be in a cold environment, wet them before you "go on". For either cotton or poly/cotton gloves, it improves your grip, and helps minimize "drop" situations.

I was looking at getting the slip-on "chicken skin" or "gripper" gloves from the parade store.

Also, am I reading these right?

Quote
9.6.1.2. Composition. The honor guard uniform consists of the service dress uniform coat
with epaulets and slacks/trousers, male service cap with Cadet Officer cap device, white ascot with Honor
Guard patch, metallic silver shoulder cord, white pistol belt, white gloves, and a brown non-operating
parade rifle with white leather sling. Helmets or helmet liners will not be used. Either the old or new style
of service dress may be worn; however, all members of an honor guard should be in the same style, if
possible. This uniform is authorized for year-round wear. The colors element flag bearers will wear white
flag slings instead of white pistol belts. The guards will wear pistol belts. See Table 3-1

Quote
9.6.4.10. Parade Rifle. Brown molded polystyrene, non-operating, with white leather sling.
BAYONETS WILL NOT BE USED.

If I am reading them right then the Flag carriers should be white leather, like these:



And the rifle slings should be white leather as well, like these:



I think we're getting off onto a bit of a semantic tangent here with regard to nomenclature.

In the broad sense of your squadron carrying the colors in a local parade, color guard doesn't equal honor guard.  And there is quite a bit of difference in what's required of a color guard when it comes to uniforms and equipment.

A color guard can be done in the standard service uniform, without the ascot, wheel cap and service jacket.  If this is the path you're taking, don't spend oodles of money buying $200 Drill America M-1 replicas when the $50 imitation rifles will work just fine for your purposes.  And, your squadron commander will expel a lot less stomach acid when one gets dropped, cracked or otherwise broken the first time some knucklehead tries to spin it.
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Slim
I_Am_Twigs
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« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2018, 06:14:11 AM »

I think we're getting off onto a bit of a semantic tangent here with regard to nomenclature.

In the broad sense of your squadron carrying the colors in a local parade, color guard doesn't equal honor guard.  And there is quite a bit of difference in what's required of a color guard when it comes to uniforms and equipment.

A color guard can be done in the standard service uniform, without the ascot, wheel cap and service jacket.  If this is the path you're taking, don't spend oodles of money buying $200 Drill America M-1 replicas when the $50 imitation rifles will work just fine for your purposes.  And, your squadron commander will expel a lot less stomach acid when one gets dropped, cracked or otherwise broken the first time some knucklehead tries to spin it.

I'm planning to start an honor guard, not a color guard. I want to get the full, proper honor guard uniform.
The events that I plan on doing, and have the ability to set up are fairly big and it will give our squadron some more exposure to the public to help with recruiting.
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Mitchell #68874
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Mitchell 1969
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« Reply #17 on: November 26, 2018, 11:07:18 AM »

I think we're getting off onto a bit of a semantic tangent here with regard to nomenclature.

In the broad sense of your squadron carrying the colors in a local parade, color guard doesn't equal honor guard.  And there is quite a bit of difference in what's required of a color guard when it comes to uniforms and equipment.

A color guard can be done in the standard service uniform, without the ascot, wheel cap and service jacket.  If this is the path you're taking, don't spend oodles of money buying $200 Drill America M-1 replicas when the $50 imitation rifles will work just fine for your purposes.  And, your squadron commander will expel a lot less stomach acid when one gets dropped, cracked or otherwise broken the first time some knucklehead tries to spin it.

I'm planning to start an honor guard, not a color guard. I want to get the full, proper honor guard uniform.
The events that I plan on doing, and have the ability to set up are fairly big and it will give our squadron some more exposure to the public to help with recruiting.

An observation, if I may, along with three questions:

Your phrasing over several posts suggests that this is your personal effort for your personal objective.  Im assuming that you are a Cadet, so let me ask this - does your Squadron Commander know about your ideas, plans and objectives? If not, why not? But, if so, then why arent you consulting him/her for ideas on how to fund what really is a Squadron project and not an Im planning... and I want... project?


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sarmed1
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« Reply #18 on: November 27, 2018, 04:49:08 PM »

...  We also have several practice parade rifles, including what I call the "Three stooges," where one of our more crafty senior members took pieces of 1"x6" planks, traced the out his M-1 Garand on them, then cut/sanded/shaped them.

I had a squadron that did this as well, the option there was he just cut them, then provided direction on how to sand/shape/paint them.  It was sort of a team building, personal pride sort of exercise.

MK
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Mark Kleibscheidel
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arajca
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« Reply #19 on: November 27, 2018, 07:00:02 PM »

I think we're getting off onto a bit of a semantic tangent here with regard to nomenclature.

In the broad sense of your squadron carrying the colors in a local parade, color guard doesn't equal honor guard.  And there is quite a bit of difference in what's required of a color guard when it comes to uniforms and equipment.

A color guard can be done in the standard service uniform, without the ascot, wheel cap and service jacket.  If this is the path you're taking, don't spend oodles of money buying $200 Drill America M-1 replicas when the $50 imitation rifles will work just fine for your purposes.  And, your squadron commander will expel a lot less stomach acid when one gets dropped, cracked or otherwise broken the first time some knucklehead tries to spin it.

I'm planning to start an honor guard, not a color guard. I want to get the full, proper honor guard uniform.
The events that I plan on doing, and have the ability to set up are fairly big and it will give our squadron some more exposure to the public to help with recruiting.

Does you squadron currently have a color guard? If not, get one first. Honor Guard is based on color guard.
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