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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Membership  |  Topic: Should we have a "pilot" specality track?
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Author Topic: Should we have a "pilot" specality track?  (Read 623 times)
tkelley004
Recruit

Posts: 36
Unit: PCR-WA-015

« on: October 21, 2018, 06:21:08 PM »

I saw this article https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2018/07/20/so-you-wanna-fly-air-force-pilots-can-apply-to-new-aviation-only-program/

We all have seen the pilot in CAP who "only wants to fly" does that guy have a value to CAP? if they gain hours and fly cadets? Get training done toward filling needed roles? such mission pilot (getting scanner and observer on the way)

Discuss!

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Tim Kelley, Lt Col, CAP
Bellingham Composite Squadron
Retired USAF SMSgt
Hawk200
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 4,629

« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2018, 06:23:01 PM »

I think it would be an ideal program for a warrant officer track. I think the Air Force should think about it too.
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etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,307

« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2018, 07:10:30 PM »

Yes.  I'm a MS, MO, AP, MP, O'ride Pilot, FRO and SET. About to start training a new group of Mission Scanners.

Between all of those I stay VERY busy, and yet people ask me why I'm not working a Specialty Track.

All the above should be some type of track for sure. I'm so busy working down at these worker bee levels ... I have no desire or time to be in "leadership".

I'm happy doing all of the above. I can't imagine what would be added to the above to make it an official "Track". Seems it could all stand on its own. IDK.  Not Me Worry.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2018, 07:14:17 PM by etodd » Logged
MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO
SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 10,470
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2018, 07:56:39 PM »

No, because I think it's incumbent on the pilots to help shoulder the administrative load they help generate. Granted, eServices has simplified a lot of the paperwork, but I doesn't hurt for a flyer type to be an assistant staffer, too.
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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,307

« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2018, 08:22:46 PM »


No, because I think it's incumbent on the pilots to help shoulder the administrative load they help generate.


Does it work both ways?    ;)

I get it with some pilots who just want to show up and fly and go home. But please don't label all of us that way. As I mentioned above, I stay very busy doing lots of jobs and many things not categorized.  Sending out emails and making phone calls to Cadets and their parents, this weekend, trying to get an O'Ride day planned out, as an example.



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MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO
Live2Learn
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 689

« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2018, 11:29:07 AM »

No, because I think it's incumbent on the pilots to help shoulder the administrative load they help generate....

"All CAP members must understand that flying CAP aircraft is a privilege, not a right of membership." [CAPR 70-1].   

Unfortunately, I've met many CAP pilots who, through lack of participation in other aspects of CAP demonstrate they believe otherwise.  I agree that the documentation burden, as well as the often very large hassles setting up & flying "O" flights can be burdensome.  Been there, done that.  The "O" flight program can't be successful unless it involves other SM (see CAPP 52-7).  IMHO, some of the WIMRS & other time burners are part and parcel to the 'privilege' aspect of flying CAP aircraft "for free". 

FWIW, besides the 'free' flying involved in CAP aviation we also get 'free' BFRs and 'free' recurrent training (including mission numbers to fly to out of town events) if we wish to participate in the FAA Wings program.
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etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,307

« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2018, 12:48:12 PM »

No, because I think it's incumbent on the pilots to help shoulder the administrative load they help generate....

"All CAP members must understand that flying CAP aircraft is a privilege, not a right of membership." [CAPR 70-1].   

Unfortunately, I've met many CAP pilots who, through lack of participation in other aspects of CAP demonstrate they believe otherwise.  I agree that the documentation burden, as well as the often very large hassles setting up & flying "O" flights can be burdensome.  Been there, done that.  The "O" flight program can't be successful unless it involves other SM (see CAPP 52-7).  IMHO, some of the WIMRS & other time burners are part and parcel to the 'privilege' aspect of flying CAP aircraft "for free". 

FWIW, besides the 'free' flying involved in CAP aviation we also get 'free' BFRs and 'free' recurrent training (including mission numbers to fly to out of town events) if we wish to participate in the FAA Wings program.

Yes, but again, as I said above, there are those of us who should not be painted with that brush.

Sure as MP I fly a lot. But I'm also in the back seat shooting aerial photography as well.  I'm also the website manager for our Squadron. I'm also an SET and am training new Mission Scanners. I'm organizing our next O'Ride Day coming up next month. And more .... 

Some of us pilots do a lot more behind the scenes that many folks realize.

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MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO
jeders
Global Moderator

Posts: 2,112

« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2018, 12:53:43 PM »

No, because I think it's incumbent on the pilots to help shoulder the administrative load they help generate....

"All CAP members must understand that flying CAP aircraft is a privilege, not a right of membership." [CAPR 70-1].   

Unfortunately, I've met many CAP pilots who, through lack of participation in other aspects of CAP demonstrate they believe otherwise.  I agree that the documentation burden, as well as the often very large hassles setting up & flying "O" flights can be burdensome.  Been there, done that.  The "O" flight program can't be successful unless it involves other SM (see CAPP 52-7).  IMHO, some of the WIMRS & other time burners are part and parcel to the 'privilege' aspect of flying CAP aircraft "for free". 

FWIW, besides the 'free' flying involved in CAP aviation we also get 'free' BFRs and 'free' recurrent training (including mission numbers to fly to out of town events) if we wish to participate in the FAA Wings program.

Yes, but again, as I said above, there are those of us who should not be painted with that brush.

Sure as MP I fly a lot. But I'm also in the back seat shooting aerial photography as well.  I'm also the website manager for our Squadron. I'm also an SET and am training new Mission Scanners. I'm organizing our next O'Ride Day coming up next month. And more .... 

Some of us pilots do a lot more behind the scenes that many folks realize.

I don't think that he was intending to paint you with that brush. While you initially made some statements when you first joined this board that made you seem like one of "those" pilots, it is evident that you are doing your part to hold up the corners.

That said, there are pilots that refuse to help in any way unless it directly involves them flying. We've got one squadron where all of the leadership seems unwilling to do even the minimum required to keep the doors open and the commander refuses to have his people help out or participate.
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If you are confident in you abilities and experience, whether someone else is impressed is irrelevant. - Eclipse
SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 10,470
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2018, 03:12:57 PM »

I'm not pointing fingers at anyone specific, nor am I wielding a wild paintbrush.
My point is that there are jobs outside the ES arena that need to be accomplished for a squadron to successfully operate - Admin, Personnel, Logistics/Supply, ProDev, etc. This load needs to be shared by all the members of the unit, not just by the folks who do not fly. Pilot is an ES job, not a squadron job. The specialty tracks are designed to qualify members to fill those squadron (and later higher echelon) positions.
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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,258

« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2018, 03:32:11 PM »

The specialty tracks are designed to qualify members to fill those squadron (and later higher echelon) positions.

+1 Pilots are pilots, there's no need for a track as there's nothing they need to be aware of outside the
safe and proper operation of a CAP aircraft.

For those interested in more, including promotions, there are tracks for those who wish to be involved
in aviation-related management of the organization, including Operations and ES.
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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Membership  |  Topic: Should we have a "pilot" specality track?
 


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