Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
November 16, 2018, 03:35:35 AM
Home Help Login Register
News:

CAP Talk  |  Cadet Programs  |  Encampments & NCSAs  |  Topic: Earning the NRA marksmanship medals (Questions)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Pages: [1] Print
Author Topic: Earning the NRA marksmanship medals (Questions)  (Read 1202 times)
FNelson
Recruit

Posts: 23
Unit: SWR-NM-018

« on: October 20, 2018, 11:56:17 PM »

Myself and a few other cadets are planning an activity for our wing to be held this winter which will be focused on ES training. Right now we are in the process of putting together lesson plans and agendas for the course while also cumming up with the framework of some different activities that we think might be fun and interesting. While the focus of the activity is on ES training (W/ teambuilding also being a big part) I think it would be good to have a few non-ES activities to change things up and keep it interesting and fun. One activity that I thought of would be to have a marksmanship course that would give the cadets the opportunity to earn their NRA marksmanship medals.

I have seen cadets from other wings wearing them, but I have never seen a cadet from my wing (New Mexico Wing) wearing one. I have several questions that I would like to have answered before I officially present my idea.

> Who would be best to contact to make sure that we have the proper facilities, equipment, and personnel for the activity?
> Can the qualification be done with Air Rifles or BB Guns?
       > If not, is it possible to get approval for firearms to be used. And if so, what is the process I would need to follow?
> Are their special forms/authorizations that need to be completed by the activity staff and/or the cadet students?
> What are the requirements for each of the different badges?
> How to properly wear the badges on the dress blues (not necessary knowledge for my proposal, but good to know for future reference)

If you can answer any of my questions I would be very thankful. Any other information is greatly appreciated.
Logged
C/CMSgt. Forest Nelson
Santa Fe Composite Squadron "Flying Tigers"
"A legacy of Honor"
lordmonar
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 10,654

« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2018, 01:09:42 AM »

First step.   Find a senior member in your unit to head this up.   As a High Adventure Activities (HAA) there are a lot of hoops to jump thru and fankly this is way out of the your lane as a C/CMSgt.

Second Step.  Check the 60-1 on HAA and with your wing on local procedures.

Okay to answer some of your questions.

- If the goal is to get the marksmanship award you have to go through the NRA.....as it is their award.   The facilities, instructor, ect all must be approved by the wing commander.
-  You will have to check with the NRA to see what weapons qualify for their award.  And again you would have to get wing approval for any firearms use.
- You would have to check with your wing on how they want the HAA to be documented and approved.
- The badges are controlled by the NRA you would have to check with them.....but as far as I know (its been a few years since I checked into this) basically you earn the badges by scoring high enough on the course of fire for a particular weapon.   
- 39-1 is your friend.


Logged
PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP
Pacific Region
jb512
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 832

« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2018, 11:00:40 PM »

I was the Firearms OIC for the Texas Wing Encampment this summer and we qualified almost all of our Intermediate cadets in the NRA program. It is pretty easy, you just need to find an activity where it is offered and go through the course of fire with a certifying official. You need a SM who is an approved firearms instructor.
Logged
abdsp51
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,591
Unit: Classified

« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2018, 10:40:14 AM »

You need a SM who is an approved firearms instructor.

No you don't. 
Logged
Mitchell 1969
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 843
Unit: PCR-CA-051

« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2018, 01:19:47 PM »

Administering an NRA shooting badge program is nowhere close to being as complicated as some people make it.

It really isnít under NRA control. They set standards and make it available. But they donít dictate who has to staff it and donít require an NRA instructor to be present. In fact, last time I reviewed the materials, there wasnít even a requirement for an NRA member to be present as far as NRA was concerned.

Best bet would be to read their current materials, then see how they can fit into CAP and comply with CAP regs.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Logged
_________________
Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.
Blanding
Recruit

Posts: 41
Unit: MER-VA-102

« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2018, 01:51:55 PM »

-  You will have to check with the NRA to see what weapons firearms qualify for their award.  And again you would have to get wing approval for any firearms use.

FTFY

https://mqp.nra.org/courses-of-fire/

Pistol, shotgun, rifle, or muzzle-loader, including air guns. Qualifications for marksmanship medal are listed in each "courses of fire" pdf.
Logged
blombardo
Recruit

Posts: 17
Unit: NER-PA-007

Squadron 123 Group 6 PA
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2018, 01:45:12 PM »

Our cadets have brought this up a few time.

I too would appreciate someone typing up a walk through on exactly how to get this handled from start to finish...

I would imagine that it is as simple as
1- find the location
2- get permission slips signed
3- do the event - record the info in personal files (can't save it in e services)
4 - have 2a's filled out to be allowed to wear the item -  again stored in cadet personal files as you can't save this in e services.

-that should be it..  I think.


I'm guessing at these answers based off limited research so please dont take my info here as a fact - its just a conversational aid to get the topic moving a bit.  the only facts I have are here:
https://civilairpatrol.freshdesk.com/support/solutions/articles/33000211805-wear-of-the-nra-marksmanship-badge

"Cadets may wear the badge in accord with CAPM 39-1. "NRA Marksmanship Badge. Cadets may wear one marksmanship qualification medal/badge earned by completing the requirements of the NRA Marksmanship Qualification Program. Documentation in the cadetís personnel record which documents program requirement completion in accordance with published NRA guidelines is authority for wear." Senior members may not wear the badge regardless if earned as a cadet."



> Who would be best to contact to make sure that we have the proper facilities, equipment, and personnel for the activity?
-senior members must notify group /wing as this is a high risk activity - it is only authorized through proper NRA or Military training. -- you can do this on a military base if you have contacts; it is tough to get that done but possible with the right active military person willing to help out and some luck with the budget on the base.


> Can the qualification be done with Air Rifles or BB Guns?
       > If not, is it possible to get approval for firearms to be used. And if so, what is the process I would need to follow?
the qualification is done with approved rifles of a certain caliber as defined by the qualification quidelines

> Are their special forms/authorizations that need to be completed by the activity staff and/or the cadet students?
all your standard forms for field trips - plus a few extras; I'm dont have all the numbers memorized yet and havent charted this out for our group yet.

> What are the requirements for each of the different badges?
-There is only one badge - there are no 'marksman/expert/hawk eye' etc.. only one -- that you qualified - its kind of generic and onlyl good while your a cadet. Seniors can't wear it.

> How to properly wear the badges on the dress blues (not necessary knowledge for my proposal, but good to know for future reference)
-see the military rules for the air force; i forget the regulation but its about 100 pages long and describes all of that.  CAP regs do not specifically mention it


https://www.friendsofnra.org/state.aspx?sid=49&cid=1171



« Last Edit: October 23, 2018, 02:18:31 PM by blombardo » Logged
Sr Member Brian Lombardo, CAP
Squadron123, IT, PAO, Logistics
PA Group 6, Assistant IT
Facebook Page-squadron123g6
Facebook Group -squadron123g6
Twitter /squadron123g6
jb512
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 832

« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2018, 08:43:05 PM »

You need a SM who is an approved firearms instructor.

No you don't.

Yeah, ya do.
Logged
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,246

« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2018, 09:01:08 PM »

You need a SM who is an approved firearms instructor.

No you don't.

Yeah, ya do.

Cite Please.
Logged


jb512
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 832

« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2018, 09:03:25 PM »

You need a SM who is an approved firearms instructor.

No you don't.

Yeah, ya do.

Cite Please.

CAPR 60-1 Para 2.10.2
Logged
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,246

« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2018, 09:06:51 PM »

You need a SM who is an approved firearms instructor.

No you don't.

Yeah, ya do.

Cite Please.

CAPR 60-1 Para 2.10.2

Which literally says the opposite, or actually doesn't address the assertion either way.

"2.10.2. Cadets may participate in firearm training if the wing commander approves the training facility
and sponsoring personnel or agency in advance and in writing, per the HAA guidelines of 2.9. Training
must be sponsored and supervised by instructors holding current credentials as military range safety
officers, law enforcement firearms instructors, or National Rifle Association, National Skeet Shooting
Association or Amateur Trap Shooting Association firearms instructors."


It is not only allowed, but quite common for non-CAP members to provide firearms instruction and
NRA qualifications. Just about every encampment has some sort of firearms training, almost always
facilitated by military personnel who run the range, etc.
Logged


jb512
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 832

« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2018, 09:17:05 PM »

You need a SM who is an approved firearms instructor.

No you don't.

Yeah, ya do.

Cite Please.

CAPR 60-1 Para 2.10.2

Which literally says the opposite, or actually doesn't address the assertion either way.

"2.10.2. Cadets may participate in firearm training if the wing commander approves the training facility
and sponsoring personnel or agency in advance and in writing, per the HAA guidelines of 2.9. Training
must be sponsored and supervised by instructors holding current credentials as military range safety
officers, law enforcement firearms instructors, or National Rifle Association, National Skeet Shooting
Association or Amateur Trap Shooting Association firearms instructors."


It is not only allowed, but quite common for non-CAP members to provide firearms instruction and
NRA qualifications. Just about every encampment has some sort of firearms training, almost always
facilitated by military personnel who run the range, etc.

*Insert facepalm meme here*

Are we arguing or agreeing? I'm confused.

Yes, it is allowed and quite common for non-CAP members to provide firearms instruction and NRA qualifications. And yes, just about every encampment has firearms training facilitated by personnel who run the range.
Logged
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,246

« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2018, 09:19:27 PM »

You said at least 3 times you needs a Senior Member to perform the training.

You do not.

So I guess that means we are disagreeing.
Logged


jb512
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 832

« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2018, 09:27:16 PM »

You said at least 3 times you needs a Senior Member to perform the training.

You do not.

So I guess that means we are disagreeing.

I think I'm finally starting to figure you out. What someone says in part of a conversation, you literally pick apart - word for word. In my mind I was thinking that a Senior Member who was running the range had to have one of the approved firearms qualifications. You read that to mean the opposite - that I was saying that an approved firearms instructor had to be a CAP Senior Member.

Congratulations, you win another semantics battle.  :clap:
Logged
abdsp51
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,591
Unit: Classified

« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2018, 10:14:19 PM »

You said at least 3 times you needs a Senior Member to perform the training.

You do not.

So I guess that means we are disagreeing.

I think I'm finally starting to figure you out. What someone says in part of a conversation, you literally pick apart - word for word. In my mind I was thinking that a Senior Member who was running the range had to have one of the approved firearms qualifications. You read that to mean the opposite - that I was saying that an approved firearms instructor had to be a CAP Senior Member.

Congratulations, you win another semantics battle.  :clap:

No semantics.  You flat out said you need a SM who is a firearms instructor which contradicts the verbage of the reg you cited.  You do not need a SM who is a firearms instructor to hold the training.  What you do need is

A.  Wing CC permission
B. Agency approval
C. Firearms certified instructor
D. SM to be present because of CPP and other guidelines

Now can the instructor and sm be the same people yes, but you do not need a firearms intructor certified sm to do the training. 

Logged
jb512
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 832

« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2018, 10:22:44 PM »

You said at least 3 times you needs a Senior Member to perform the training.

You do not.

So I guess that means we are disagreeing.

I think I'm finally starting to figure you out. What someone says in part of a conversation, you literally pick apart - word for word. In my mind I was thinking that a Senior Member who was running the range had to have one of the approved firearms qualifications. You read that to mean the opposite - that I was saying that an approved firearms instructor had to be a CAP Senior Member.

Congratulations, you win another semantics battle.  :clap:

No semantics.  You flat out said you need a SM who is a firearms instructor which contradicts the verbage of the reg you cited.  You do not need a SM who is a firearms instructor to hold the training.  What you do need is

A.  Wing CC permission
B. Agency approval
C. Firearms certified instructor
D. SM to be present because of CPP and other guidelines

Now can the instructor and sm be the same people yes, but you do not need a firearms intructor certified sm to do the training.

I was trying to offer some friendly advice, based on personal experience, and I mistakenly added the "SM" portion of my response. As I have already explained, I was looking at it from the point of view of a CAP Senior Member who was running the range so I added that part unnecessarily.

You can win too. Congrats.

I'm not sure if this forum is argumentative on purpose or if it is a select few. I can run my future posts through you or Eclipse in the future to correct for content if needed.
Logged
CAPLTC
Forum Regular

Posts: 161
Unit: MER

« Reply #16 on: October 24, 2018, 10:24:15 PM »

I have run this HAA for CAP and the USN Sea Cadets for 3 years now.
It's very simple and very easy.
Logistics (place to shoot, firearms to shoot, magazines etc etc) is the long pole in the tent.
If there are questions, have a Senior Member from your Squadron PM/DM me.
I can email all the HAA paperwork and parent emails (have done 4 different Squadrons) as an example.
Thanks.
Logged
"Find the enemy that wants to end this experiment (in American democracy) and kill every one of them until theyíre so sick of the killing that they leave us and our freedoms intact." -- SECDEF Mattis
SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 10,464
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #17 on: October 24, 2018, 10:32:56 PM »

You need a SM who is an approved firearms instructor.
You wrote this, correct?
At least three of us read this at face value, and disagreed with your statement. The snark was unnecessary.
And we're done here, unless someone had additional previously unstated info.
Logged
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
Pages: [1] Print 
CAP Talk  |  Cadet Programs  |  Encampments & NCSAs  |  Topic: Earning the NRA marksmanship medals (Questions)
 


Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP SMF 2.0.14 | SMF © 2017, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.082 seconds with 25 queries.