What would you like to see done for Civil Air Patrol uniforms?

Started by Hawk200, October 13, 2018, 09:48:58 pm

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arajca

A real service jacket for the corporate uniforms, not a security guard jacket.

Gunsotsu

Quote from: Hawk200 on October 14, 2018, 10:54:31 pm
Wasn't really looking to create any heated discussion, just wondering what people would like to see done for our uniforms. So far, nothing really concrete.

Looking for the ideas. What would you change? Add? Remove?

CAP is probably always going to have a couple different uniform categories (by which, I mean those meeting weight/grooming standards, and those who don't).

When it comes to uniforms, what are people interested in seeing done? If you've already posted, I know your thoughts, I'll add them to list that I consolidate. Anything else? Hard to believe that there isn't a patch, or a badge, or a uniform, or modifications that people wouldn't want to see.


Appears to me that people have spoken, you just aren't liking what they're suggesting. You're either open to taking every opinion, even those you don't agree with, or you're just looking to stir the pot.


CAP9907

Quote from: Hawk200 on October 14, 2018, 10:54:31 pm
Wasn't really looking to create any heated discussion, just wondering what people would like to see done for our uniforms. So far, nothing really concrete.

Looking for the ideas. What would you change? Add? Remove?

CAP is probably always going to have a couple different uniform categories (by which, I mean those meeting weight/grooming standards, and those who don't).

When it comes to uniforms, what are people interested in seeing done? If you've already posted, I know your thoughts, I'll add them to list that I consolidate. Anything else? Hard to believe that there isn't a patch, or a badge, or a uniform, or modifications that people wouldn't want to see.


Then I'll quote in case you missed it, this is quite concrete



Elimination of all USAF style uniforms for seniors. ALL OF THEM.
Adoption of USAF uniform by cadets within two years of USAF change.

credit: Gunsotsu
21 yrs of service

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Hawk200

Quote from: Gunsotsu on October 15, 2018, 01:50:35 am
Appears to me that people have spoken, you just aren't liking what they're suggesting. You're either open to taking every opinion, even those you don't agree with, or you're just looking to stir the pot.


You missed the point, and you're sidestepping with this little "call out." I've done posts like this in past, and it wasn't meant to create argumentative discussion, I was simply wondering what things someone would like to see for the uniforms. In the past lists, I included proposals that I didn't agree with, simply because it was proposed in response to what I asked.

Your idea will be added to the list, just like every other legitimate idea. What I'm looking for is someone saying "I'd like to see this." What I'm not looking for is people responding with "Why do you want THAT?" to anyone else's proposal.

If people want to discuss the efficacy, practicality, or the potential popularity of a specific idea, I would appreciate them initiating their own thread and discussing it there, not hijacking this one.

Eclipse

Hawk, the reality is that threads like these are pointless, because there is too much broken with the multiform
to have any coherent basis to start.

There isn't a single garment, insignia, or wear policy which isn't literally defective, and that doesn't include
or address when people willfully disobey or ignore the regs, and when leaders fail to enforce them.

The same things have been broken for 20 years, countless hours have been spent both solicited and unsolicited
providing corrections to typos and omissions, as well as suggesting reasonable fixes for more "complex" problems,
and for the most part they are largely ignored.



arajca

Replace GTM badges with Ground Forces badge or expand to cover more than just SAR based ground teams.

Add Incident staff badge.

BTW, both of these have been sent up already. Not which black hole they got sucked into since there no requirement for higher levels to update submitters on status of suggestions/ideas.

Stonewall

Hey, I proposed this idea for ALL members back in 2007. Identical cut to ACU/OCP, but distinctive and functional. Problem solved, problem staying solved.



But again, I think all AF uniforms for all CAP members should be authorized, regardless of size, weight, and facial hair.

Eclipse




Stonewall

Quote from: Eclipse on October 15, 2018, 02:25:13 pm
I thought I already approved this 10 years ago?!?


Yeah, you probably voted FOR the idea. But keep in mind, one of the options was "hold out for ABUs."  I wonder what would happen if I changed the voting options...



I'd also switch to the new name tape/insignia colors. I like the darker blue better than the ultramarine.

hfriday

Personally, I'd like to see the big pocket badges for technician, senior, and master ratings go away in favor of a smaller badge over the nametape, like the GT and aircrew badges.

As a veteran myself, I'd prefer to keep the ABU, if only because I find it comfortable and don't like looking during a SAR mission like I got lost looking for the 19th hole. The fact that I have so darn much MONEY tied up in my two ABUs is certainly another reason to want to keep them in circulation.

Dwight Dutton

Quote from: CAP9907 on October 15, 2018, 01:59:30 am
Elimination of all USAF style uniforms for seniors. ALL OF THEM.
Adoption of USAF uniform by cadets within two years of USAF change.
credit: Gunsotsu


If a decent corporate service coat was adopted, followed by some set of standards for using commonly available black tie as a mess dress outfit, most of the resistance to this would go away.   In fact it would not be difficult at all to come up with a corporate service coat that looks substantially BETTER than the airline pilot coat the USAF uses now.

Stonewall

Quote from: hfriday on October 15, 2018, 02:44:14 pm
As a veteran myself, I'd prefer to keep the ABU, if only because I find it comfortable and don't like looking during a SAR mission like I got lost looking for the 19th hole. The fact that I have so darn much MONEY tied up in my two ABUs is certainly another reason to want to keep them in circulation.


If you're talking comfort, you'd love the OCPs. The way they're cut and fit are head and shoulders better than ABUs, or BDUs for that matter.

GroundHawg

Quote from: Stonewall on October 15, 2018, 02:17:35 pm
Hey, I proposed this idea for ALL members back in 2007. Identical cut to ACU/OCP, but distinctive and functional. Problem solved, problem staying solved.



But again, I think all AF uniforms for all CAP members should be authorized, regardless of size, weight, and facial hair.




I love this, and this would be ideal..... but wont be approved because it makes too much sense.

My alternate reality suggestion: If we ever swap to the OCP uniform, to swap the BBDU top to a TRU top to match the same cut, ie Velcro on the sleeves, two slanted pockets, rank on the front, etc...

jb512

Can we ask to have them turn down the brightness on the ABU NCO insignia? Keep the navy blue background but make the stripes dark grey or tan.

CAPLTC

Quote from: jb512 on October 16, 2018, 01:06:52 am
Can we ask to have them turn down the brightness on the ABU NCO insignia? Keep the navy blue background but make the stripes dark grey or tan.


Maybe make all insignia safety orange instead?
"Find the enemy that wants to end this experiment (in American democracy) and kill every one of them until they're so sick of the killing that they leave us and our freedoms intact." -- SECDEF Mattis

Eclipse

Quote from: CAPLTC on October 16, 2018, 02:37:01 am
Quote from: jb512 on October 16, 2018, 01:06:52 am
Can we ask to have them turn down the brightness on the ABU NCO insignia? Keep the navy blue background but make the stripes dark grey or tan.


Maybe make all insignia safety orange instead?


I swear to {insert deity of choice here} that I would never say another word about the NCO program if that happened.



Hawk200

Quote from: Stonewall on October 15, 2018, 02:17:35 pm
Hey, I proposed this idea for ALL members back in 2007. Identical cut to ACU/OCP, but distinctive and functional. Problem solved, problem staying solved.



But again, I think all AF uniforms for all CAP members should be authorized, regardless of size, weight, and facial hair.



I'll add this to the list, but there is only one problem: What do we call this? It needs a name/designation. ("Stonewall Utility?")

Hawk200

Quote from: HandsomeWalt_USMC on October 15, 2018, 12:06:11 am
I'll bite. I had an idea recently based on a new trinket I was given at work. All of us who have served in the military were given an American flag citation bar (like an enamel ribbon) with our service and veteran on it. For instance, mine has USMC Veteran.
I think some sort of CAP ribbon for members who have served in the military should be available, one that they can wear on corporate uniforms or in lieu of wearing military ribbons on USAF style uniforms. My idea would be for a new ribbon design, not service specific. Call it the CAP Military Service Award or something like that. It would greatly reduce the amount of clutter for many of us (with my CAP and mil ribbons together I have 19 as a 2ndLt) and provide a little something to recognize the service of our members who wear corporate uniforms. Thoughts?

You mentioned that you had something with "USMC" on it. Are you looking for just one ribbon, but maybe a device that indicates branch perhaps? There are ribbons for various things that have a specific designation "bar" (for lack of a better term.) Maybe attachments that have the service, or is that beyond what you're thinking?

Hawk200

Quote from: Eclipse on October 15, 2018, 02:13:14 pm
Hawk, the reality is that threads like these are pointless, because there is too much broken with the multiform
to have any coherent basis to start.

There isn't a single garment, insignia, or wear policy which isn't literally defective, and that doesn't include
or address when people willfully disobey or ignore the regs, and when leaders fail to enforce them.

The same things have been broken for 20 years, countless hours have been spent both solicited and unsolicited
providing corrections to typos and omissions, as well as suggesting reasonable fixes for more "complex" problems,
and for the most part they are largely ignored.


If you don't choose to do something, it would be pointless. There are people in CAP that would like to see things cleaned up. Uniforms is just a single area, there are others.

I think if members got more involved, started pushing useful ideas, and then following up, positive change can happen. We want to be professional, and if we dedicate ourselves to that, we can be viewed as professionals. But, we should focus on developing our professionalism, and let the view of it came as it may.

Hawk200

Quote from: arajca on October 15, 2018, 02:15:57 pm
Replace GTM badges with Ground Forces badge or expand to cover more than just SAR based ground teams.

Add Incident staff badge.

BTW, both of these have been sent up already. Not which black hole they got sucked into since there no requirement for higher levels to update submitters on status of suggestions/ideas.


Noted. We'd have to come up with criteria and designs, but that can be worked on later.