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November 16, 2018, 04:08:02 AM
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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Membership  |  Topic: Senior Member Application Arrests
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Author Topic: Senior Member Application Arrests  (Read 2310 times)
Darknight87
Recruit

Posts: 5

« on: October 11, 2018, 08:55:13 PM »

     Hello, I'm interested in re-joining CAP as a senior member and was a active cadet for 4 years. I had to leave my unit because I had a death in my family and had to move far away and with everything going on at the time, I had to refocus what I would do in life next. I was awarded numerous cadet of the year awards for my squadron and for my wing. I was also an apprentice to a NASA engineer who was also my squadron commander. So I loved learning about space and got very interested in aerospace education. Later on, my commander left and I picked up emergency services with my new commander and got certified to be a ground team member.....then I left.😭. 3 years later I was arrested for dui and it actually pointed out to 've that someone had drugged me at a party and I was so out of it, I tried to drive home and hit another car. Everyone was fine it was a minor Collison. I was then arrested for dui and hit and run. The hit and run was dismissed before the court hearing so I does not ever show on my record but the dui stuck. Since then I don't drink alcohol and more and I never leave any drinks unattended without me being by it, soda, water, juice. A couple years following that my girlfriend and I had a loud argument in our apartment and the neighbors called the cops. My girlfriend left before the cops arrived and the cops told me, If we get called for a domestic dispute, we have to take someone to jail. I spent the night in jail and the next morning my girlfriend appeared in front of the hearing judge, to determine if It was an assault and the judge ruled out, with my girlfriend confession, that I was free to go and the charges would be dropped. I really want to rejoin CAP and give an effort back to community and my country. I loved every minute of being a cadet and I wouldn't have learned so much if I didn't have committed senior members will to help out. I like to pay that back and get back into emergency services. I currently drive for uber and before that I worked as an auto mechanic for 8 years so my driving record shows the dui as out of place, meaning I would never intensionally get a dui since I don't drink booze. Can anyone please tell me if I'm going to rejected from nhq?? I would be crushed if I tried to rejoin and then found out that I cant.

Thank you for your time to read this.
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,246

« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2018, 09:27:04 PM »

Can anyone please tell me if I'm going to rejected from nhq??

No one here can.

Bottom line - with a felony conviction , normally the answer is no.

With misdemeanors, it really depends on the circumstances (which don't need to be posted here as it won't make any difference).

With arrests or financial issues, it again depends.

When you are discussing membership with your local Unit CC, make sure he is clear on the high-level relevent issues,
don't leave anything off the application, and then all you can do is wait and see if the BGC comes back with concerns.

If it does, the only person that can waive things which would be a "no", is the National Commander.

See CAPR 35-5 Page 13-14:
https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/R039_002_A74FDA9552C2D.pdf

"3.2.1.4. Suitability. Subject to being waived by the Chief Operating Officer and/or
National Commander, as noted below, any one of the following may be the basis for rejection of
membership.

3.2.1.4.1 Conviction of a felony by any court of record whether federal, state or
military. (Requires both Chief Operating Officer and National Commander concurrence to accept
as member.)

3.2.1.4.2 A pattern of arrests and/or convictions including but not limited to sex
offenses, child abuse, DUIs, dishonesty and violence.

3.2.1.4.3 Discharge from the armed services under other than honorable conditions.

3.2.1.4.4 Falsification of information on the membership application.

3.2.1.4.5 Previously terminated or non-renewed for cause from membership in CAP.
(Requires both Chief Operating Officer and National Commander concurrence to accept as
member.)

3.2.1.4.6 Any other unfavorable information brought to the attention of CAP officials at
any level.

3.2.2. Confidential Screening. All individuals applying for active membership must be
screened and registered by National Headquarters. The screening process requires that the
individual complete a FBI fingerprint card used by National Headquarters to request a FBI criminal
records check to determine membership eligibility. Final decision as to each individual's eligibility
rests with the National Commander and the Chief Operating Officer. This decision is final and is
not subject to appeal or to the "complaints" procedure under CAPR 123-2, Complaints. "
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OldGuy
Seasoned Member

Posts: 482
Unit: TBKS

« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2018, 10:55:09 PM »

Visit https://www.cjpf.org/clemency/clemencystates.html and see if you qualify for a pardon.
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EMT-83
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,886

« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2018, 11:08:26 PM »

Be honest, but brief, on the application.

On July 4, 2015 I was convicted of DUI and performed 50 hours of community service. On April 1, 2018 I was arrested for disorderly conduct and the charges were dropped.

No long stories need, the pertinent facts will be discovered during the background check.
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NIN
Super Moderator

Posts: 4,980
Unit: of issue

« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2018, 12:18:47 AM »

Speaking as a personnelist and former commander: disclose anything thats going to pop on a background check, even if you think "ah, its been too long."

The problem is when the background check flags something that you didn't disclose. Then the eyebrows shoot up.

In your explanation, list the dates (even if just month/year) and the circumstances.

"I received a DUI in a circumstance where we later determined my drink at a party had been tampered with. After the 2nd DUI, I no longer drink alcohol." etc.

It is especially relevant if you had a DUI at 23 and you're 40 now, etc.

We brought on a gent who is a pastor or minister of some sort, and under arrests he asked if he should disclose that he'd been arrested for disorderly conduct during a protest outside an abortion clinic in the 1970s.  To be expected for a minister, I suppose.

"Do you think its on your record, still?" I asked.

"Heck, I'm not sure it even made it there. The cops were real polite, the brought me to the station and put me in the holding tank. I mean, are you really under arrest if the door to the holding cell is open and you can come and go freely to get coffee from the pot on the turnkey's desk?"

"Yeah, I'm kind of guessing not, but put it down anyway."

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Darin Ninness, Lt Col, CAP
Sq Bubba, Wing Dude, National Guy
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2018 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.
A.Member
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,617

« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2018, 12:28:22 AM »

No long stories need, the pertinent facts will be discovered during the background check.
This.   

And...sigh...since the OP posted it, I'm just going to say it: 

When I read long "story of my life" posts like the OP's, they scream of someone full of excuses and a lack of accountability for their actions.  Lot's of gaps in stories like these.   Always raises some flags with me and leads to more questions. 

My advice to the OP, before you travel further down this or any other road, seriously do some self reflection and make sure you've REALLY got yourself squared away before trying to "give back" anything to someone else or any organization.  If you're not there yet, you need to make this your primary focus.

Another point to reflect on, in your post, I also read that you need the organization, but keep in mind the organization doesn't necessarily need you (this applies to all current/ prospective members).  What value will you bring?   We all have interests in things; that's not enough.  Commit to bringing value.

Will any of the info you posted impact the approval of your application?  I have no idea but it should impact your decision to submit one.

Just my $.02

 
« Last Edit: October 12, 2018, 12:35:02 AM by A.Member » Logged
"For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return." - Leonardo da Vinci
MSG Mac
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,931
Unit: MER-MD-071

« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2018, 02:56:16 AM »

besides all that's already been said. If you've ever  been fingerprinted, it's in the system. so it will pop up when the CAP fingerprints are processed. let the commander know all the circumstances and be prepared to write an explanation to go with the Form 12.
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Michael P. McEleney
Lt Col CAP
MSG USA (Retired)
TheSkyHornet
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,529

« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2018, 10:03:32 AM »

Also anticipate that there may be restricted 'privileges' even if permitted to join, such as the denial of a CAP drivers license.

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NIN
Super Moderator

Posts: 4,980
Unit: of issue

« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2018, 01:29:45 PM »

Also anticipate that there may be restricted 'privileges' even if permitted to join, such as the denial of a CAP drivers license.

That depends on a number of factors, including "elapsed time."

Per CAPR 77-1, para 1-5, driving privs must be denied if DUI, > 3 moving violations, 6 => non-moving violations, reckless driving or vehicular felony occurred within the last two years.

If OP's been sober > 8 years, there's a good chance that won't even show up on the driving record.



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Darin Ninness, Lt Col, CAP
Sq Bubba, Wing Dude, National Guy
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2018 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.
PHall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 6,314

« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2018, 03:01:49 PM »

Also anticipate that there may be restricted 'privileges' even if permitted to join, such as the denial of a CAP drivers license.

That depends on a number of factors, including "elapsed time."

Per CAPR 77-1, para 1-5, driving privs must be denied if DUI, > 3 moving violations, 6 => non-moving violations, reckless driving or vehicular felony occurred within the last two years.

If OP's been sober > 8 years, there's a good chance that won't even show up on the driving record.


Most states only show the last three years on your driving record. Anything before that won't show.
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NIN
Super Moderator

Posts: 4,980
Unit: of issue

« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2018, 03:36:58 PM »

Most states only show the last three years on your driving record. Anything before that won't show.

"That depends on a number of factors, including "elapsed time"."
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Darin Ninness, Lt Col, CAP
Sq Bubba, Wing Dude, National Guy
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2018 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.
Mitchell 1969
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 843
Unit: PCR-CA-051

« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2018, 12:47:11 AM »

Visit https://www.cjpf.org/clemency/clemencystates.html and see if you qualify for a pardon.

A pardon doesn’t erase a conviction. This could be a lot of work for no discernible reward.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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_________________
Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.
Mitchell 1969
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 843
Unit: PCR-CA-051

« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2018, 12:52:59 AM »

Also anticipate that there may be restricted 'privileges' even if permitted to join, such as the denial of a CAP drivers license.

That depends on a number of factors, including "elapsed time."

Per CAPR 77-1, para 1-5, driving privs must be denied if DUI, > 3 moving violations, 6 => non-moving violations, reckless driving or vehicular felony occurred within the last two years.

If OP's been sober > 8 years, there's a good chance that won't even show up on the driving record.


Most states only show the last three years on your driving record. Anything before that won't show.

Except DUIs. It’s all dependent on state law, but DUIs can stay on the record for 10 years up to a high of, as I recall, 75 years. In fact, at least one state keeps it (or kept it) on the record for LIFE. Reckless Driving often sticks around beyond three years, too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
« Last Edit: October 13, 2018, 12:59:55 AM by Mitchell 1969 » Logged
_________________
Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.
Mitchell 1969
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 843
Unit: PCR-CA-051

« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2018, 01:12:35 AM »

No long stories need, the pertinent facts will be discovered during the background check.
This.   

And...sigh...since the OP posted it, I'm just going to say it: 

When I read long "story of my life" posts like the OP's, they scream of someone full of excuses and a lack of accountability for their actions.  Lot's of gaps in stories like these.   Always raises some flags with me and leads to more questions. 

My advice to the OP, before you travel further down this or any other road, seriously do some self reflection and make sure you've REALLY got yourself squared away before trying to "give back" anything to someone else or any organization.  If you're not there yet, you need to make this your primary focus.

Another point to reflect on, in your post, I also read that you need the organization, but keep in mind the organization doesn't necessarily need you (this applies to all current/ prospective members).  What value will you bring?   We all have interests in things; that's not enough.  Commit to bringing value.

Will any of the info you posted impact the approval of your application?  I have no idea but it should impact your decision to submit one.

Just my $.02


There are at least three things mentioned in the story that give me pause. And, of course, it’s not the whole story. (It isn’t half, either; part of the other side of the story was also related,so, let’s call it 65% or so).

If I was the person reviewing this during a background check, I’d have more questions and would be looking deeper.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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_________________
Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.
OldGuy
Seasoned Member

Posts: 482
Unit: TBKS

« Reply #14 on: October 13, 2018, 03:29:35 AM »

Visit https://www.cjpf.org/clemency/clemencystates.html and see if you qualify for a pardon.

A pardon doesn’t erase a conviction. This could be a lot of work for no discernible reward.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
No, but in many states if enough time has lapsed, you can get the pardoned crime "expunged", the question is how much do you want to do?

The reality is that a crime for which you have been pardoned and that has been expunged will be seen in a better light by most employers than a conviction absent same.
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Mitchell 1969
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 843
Unit: PCR-CA-051

« Reply #15 on: October 13, 2018, 05:52:14 AM »

Visit https://www.cjpf.org/clemency/clemencystates.html and see if you qualify for a pardon.

A pardon doesn’t erase a conviction. This could be a lot of work for no discernible reward.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
No, but in many states if enough time has lapsed, you can get the pardoned crime "expunged", the question is how much do you want to do?

The reality is that a crime for which you have been pardoned and that has been expunged will be seen in a better light by most employers than a conviction absent same.

Expungement is not a synonym for “erased.”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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_________________
Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.
OldGuy
Seasoned Member

Posts: 482
Unit: TBKS

« Reply #16 on: October 13, 2018, 05:22:08 PM »

Expungement is not a synonym for “erased.”
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Really? And why would anyone assume that it was? I certainly never said that. You might choose to read what I wrote if you want to know what I meant, rather than assume I meant something else.
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PHall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 6,314

« Reply #17 on: October 13, 2018, 08:38:59 PM »

Expungement is not a synonym for “erased.”
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Really? And why would anyone assume that it was? I certainly never said that. You might choose to read what I wrote if you want to know what I meant, rather than assume I meant something else.

Hey OldGuy, Mitchell 1969 has some rather extensive law enforcement experience. You can consider him a Subject Matter Expert on this stuff.
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OldGuy
Seasoned Member

Posts: 482
Unit: TBKS

« Reply #18 on: October 13, 2018, 08:55:51 PM »

Expungement is not a synonym for “erased.”
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Really? And why would anyone assume that it was? I certainly never said that. You might choose to read what I wrote if you want to know what I meant, rather than assume I meant something else.

Hey OldGuy, Mitchell 1969 has some rather extensive law enforcement experience. You can consider him a Subject Matter Expert on this stuff.
Sure, and I have extensive experience in HR and the issues surrounding "the box", and everything I posted is accurate. What might help is simple reading comprehension.
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SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 10,464
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #19 on: October 13, 2018, 10:35:53 PM »

Well, I got the same sense from this exchange:

Visit https://www.cjpf.org/clemency/clemencystates.html and see if you qualify for a pardon.

A pardon doesn’t erase a conviction. This could be a lot of work for no discernible reward.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
No, but in many states if enough time has lapsed, you can get the pardoned crime "expunged", the question is how much do you want to do?

The reality is that a crime for which you have been pardoned and that has been expunged will be seen in a better light by most employers than a conviction absent same.
I think my reading comprehension is pretty good, so maybe the exchange isn't as clear as you might have thought.

How about we lighten up here, and terminate the "measuring contest"?
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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
Pages: [1] 2  All Print 
CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Membership  |  Topic: Senior Member Application Arrests
 


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