Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
December 15, 2018, 08:42:19 PM
Home Help Login Register
News:

CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Membership  |  Topic: Promotion Question?
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Pages: [1] Print
Author Topic: Promotion Question?  (Read 2206 times)
francisderosa16
Member

Posts: 79
Unit: NER-MA-022

« on: September 28, 2018, 05:25:34 PM »

Hello,

I'm severely injured and will not be at CAP meetings for a while. Any way I can still promote while outside of CAP? Any form of tests I can take? I passed my Leadership test and Aerospace tests.

V/R

Cadet Airman
 DeRosa
Logged
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,347

« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2018, 05:54:50 PM »

Not likely, since active participation is part of the promotion requirements.

You'd also need to be placed in a PT Category that waives it, and no way to do drill.
Logged


francisderosa16
Member

Posts: 79
Unit: NER-MA-022

« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2018, 06:01:04 PM »

Thank you for your response!
Logged
MSG Mac
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,939
Unit: MER-MD-071

« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2018, 06:03:15 PM »

This is something that has to be discussed with your squadron DCC/and or the Commander. The PT can be waived for permeant or temporary disability (need a Physician's note).
Leadership and Aerospace tests can still be taken on line. Drill tests may also be waived based on the disability note. So the only question is your active participation and how your Commander wants to handle it.
Logged
Michael P. McEleney
Lt Col CAP
MSG USA (Retired)
TheSkyHornet
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,573

« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2018, 06:19:02 PM »

Be advised that the guidance in CAPR 60-1 encourages "active participation" being the attendance of 4 meetings within an 8 week period (or 2 meetings per month).

"A while" is subjective. What is "a while?"

For me, I would have a tough time recommending someone who is absent for a month, regardless of the circumstances. That said, going from C/Amn to C/A1C is not a significant grade increase, nor it is generally expected to have a great significance/outstanding contribution to the unit overall. But a gap in participation is still a gap. We talked in another thread last month about you needing to move up in the ranks since you've been in for some time now. This is a good example as to why you don't want to delay that promotion for more than a year.

Logged
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,347

« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2018, 07:09:02 PM »

Every cadet knows their minimum and maximum Spaatz date within weeks of joining.

Most cadets have one of two goals - make it to Mitchell (18 months) for an E3 bump in the military,
or try for Spaatz (38 Months ish, probably more like 48) to complete the program.

An 18 year old who joins as a cadet needs to hustle to Mitchell and pretty much promote to the day.

A 12 year old has a lot of slop time in there to be sick and have other priorities (~108 months from 12.0 to 20.99)

Most cadets fall somewhere safely in the middle, probably in the "twice as much time as needed bucket" assuming
they don't quit at 18.

While I'm firmly in the "progress as fast as you can without missing the point and the lessons" camp,
life happens.

My point is that you should not need to stress over a few months for a physical issue that precludes your
regular participation, and anything permanent should be discussed immediate with your Unit CC to
place you in the proper category.   Also, unless you are bed-ridden, you should still be able to attend
meetings, even if you can't do PT or drill, and if you >are< bedridden, there are myriad ways to
stay connected with the squadron, especially if you have a creative and flexible commander.



Logged


francisderosa16
Member

Posts: 79
Unit: NER-MA-022

« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2018, 06:34:03 PM »


"A while" is subjective. What is "a while?"





One year of missing CAP due to being injured.


« Last Edit: October 02, 2018, 06:38:16 PM by francisderosa16 » Logged
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,347

« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2018, 07:06:29 PM »


"A while" is subjective. What is "a while?"

One year of missing CAP due to being injured.

Can you elucidate?

Iron lungs can be hard to get down stairs, but beyond that it sounds like you would potentially
qualify for a Cat-Waiver.

Leaving PT on the table, why can't you come to meetings?
Logged


francisderosa16
Member

Posts: 79
Unit: NER-MA-022

« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2018, 08:34:53 PM »

I have a neurological problem that requires a machine only hospitals have and I cant move all my limbs, just some.
Logged
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,347

« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2018, 08:38:03 PM »

I have a neurological problem that requires a machine only hospitals have and I cant move all my limbs, just some.

That would clearly put you in a Cat-waiver situation, and you might even be able to do work from home.  Video conferencing is on every smartphone and even iPhones.

Time to talk to your CC.
Logged


francisderosa16
Member

Posts: 79
Unit: NER-MA-022

« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2018, 08:39:21 PM »

Thanx
Logged
francisderosa16
Member

Posts: 79
Unit: NER-MA-022

« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2018, 08:41:52 PM »

where are "cat-waivers" in CAP regs?
Logged
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,347

« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2018, 09:21:13 PM »

where are "cat-waivers" in CAP regs?

CAPR 60-1, Page 15:
https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/CAPR_601__Cadet_Program_Management__36D2A228D5925.pdf

"2.11.2. Fitness Category Criteria.

2.11.2.1. Category I - Unrestricted. A cadet in this category is determined to be in good health
and may participate in the physical fitness program without restriction.

2.11.2.2. Category II - Temporarily Restricted. A cadet in this category is determined by the
squadron commander to be temporarily restricted from all or part of the fitness program activities,
including the CPFT, due to a condition or injury of a temporary nature. Temporary conditions may include
broken bones, post-injury recovery, and illness. Obesity and poor physical conditioning are not eligible for
Category II status, as cadets use their time in Phase I to reach the Healthy Fitness Zone (HFZ). Cadets will
not exceed six months in this category without reevaluation. Cadets temporarily restricted from a portion
of the fitness program are still required to participate in the events from which they are not restricted.

2.11.2.3. Category III - Partially Restricted. A cadet in this category is determined by the squadron
commander to be indefinitely or permanently restricted from a portion of the physical fitness program
activities, including the CPFT, due to a medical condition or injury of permanent or indefinite duration
(i.e.: prognosis for full recovery exceeds 6 months), as certified by a physician. Cadets are still required to
participate in events they are not restricted from.

2.11.2.4. Category IV Indefinitely Restricted. A cadet in Category IV is determined by the
squadron commander to be indefinitely or permanently restricted from participation in the entire physical
fitness program due to a medical condition or injury of a permanent nature, as certified by a physician.
Cadets in this category are exempt from all physical fitness activity requirements indefinitely, but should
participate in modified activities to the extent able, and pursue personal performance goals."


I have to imagine that, as described, your condition would qualify for at least a CAT-III, if not a CAT-IV.
Logged


Spam
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,145
Unit: GA-001

« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2018, 05:08:10 AM »

Hi, Cadet.


Years ago, (before CAP required an annual EEO brief for all hands) I had a cadet with spina bifida. I then was given cadets who were legally blind, and senior members with MS. Each one of these members brought something to the table, and made CAP a better place, given that we were looking for ways to make it work. There still wasn't a coherent policy on how to work this out, at the time, though.


Today, CAP regulations, USAF and DoD policy, and federal law guarantee access to federally funded programs for everyone listed in our EEO policy. Please schedule a sit down (or at least a phone conference) with a parent and your unit commander (NOT just your cadet commander) to discuss how your condition will impact your ability to participate, and to work out and document how your unit will accommodate you.


Before meeting, you, your parents, and your unit commander should read this CAP publication (specifically, see Section 13 as a starting point):
https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/CAPP_110_Special_Needs_31C5DB879B705.pdf


Specifics:
Get your doctors to document exact limitations for what you can and cannot do both physically and mentally. Include any impacts on sensory/perceptual issues or motor control issues which may impact your ability to take tests, drill, participate in AE activities or O flights, and especially ES activities. Include how long these limitations will last in the letter (very important).

Then schedule and sit down with your CC and parents to write a game plan (aka an IEP in school terms). Go through the Cadet Program elements one by one, and "game it out": how will you do specific actions, or how will the unit work around it. WRITE DOWN expectations/exit criteria:

- Specifics on PT (I think you're probably Cat IV, but talk with your doctors about what PT is and see).

- Specific expectations on drill/formations (what you can/can't do) and how your unit will accommodate you (may be a knowledge test only, or if for example you can't rotate your right arm to salute, talk through it verbally instead).

- Specifics on classes/testing/work around the unit (documenting that you can/can't help with car wash fund raisers, cleaning days, etc.).

- Specific limits/expectations on O flights, any other outdoors physical activity (e.g. rocketry launches, field trips, etc.).

- Emergency services training and deployment limitations need to be discussed honestly. I've had a fully qualified legally blind cadet GTM who was an outstanding radio operator. We negotiated however that there were some mission tasks for which she was a liability and would be detached at base (and she was cool with that). The spina bifida member turned out to absolutely rock the mission staff admin specialist role. There may be a valuable part to play for everyone on the team, so don't accept a categorical "NO", but ask rather what niche you could fit within to serve.

Final thought:  I am certainly not suggesting that you might do this but, your peers need to know that you're documenting and adhering to a plan and are playing straight in not "gaming it". I have seen cadets with the most vague doctors notes manage to claim Cat II temp restrictions to skip PT and promote through milestones (Wright bros/Mitchell awards) which is not allowed by the regs. Sadly, we've seen some cadets and their parents play the sympathy card and manipulate their disability. DON'T be That Guy; be realistic and honest in documenting your issues, and make a good faith effort to take part to the limit of your doctors boundaries. Having a written plan signed and in your file makes this a known, approved, thing to protect you and the unit.

Let us know how this works out, ok?


Best,
Spam

Logged
francisderosa16
Member

Posts: 79
Unit: NER-MA-022

« Reply #14 on: October 04, 2018, 04:31:26 PM »

Thanx,
does this go for drill test as well?
Logged
francisderosa16
Member

Posts: 79
Unit: NER-MA-022

« Reply #15 on: October 04, 2018, 04:48:06 PM »

I cant use my legs, temporally for paralyzed for a long time.
Logged
francisderosa16
Member

Posts: 79
Unit: NER-MA-022

« Reply #16 on: October 04, 2018, 05:26:55 PM »

Never mind, I got an answer. Thanx though!
Logged
Pages: [1] Print 
CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Membership  |  Topic: Promotion Question?
 


Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP SMF 2.0.14 | SMF © 2017, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.066 seconds with 25 queries.