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October 23, 2018, 11:04:53 PM
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etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,257

« on: September 21, 2018, 10:54:52 PM »

A 1000 plus hour pilot walks in our Squadron and joins. A couple months later I ask him if he has made it through Scanner yet, and he ask me "whats a scanner?". Our Squadron is dropping the ball with new recruits. How are other Squadrons helping to jumpstart new recruits?

Yes, we have others in the same boat, so I'm about to start training them myself for Mission Scanner over a few off meeting nights. But I don't have a clue as to how this is normally done in other Squadrons. We don't have any type of mentoring system in place. Newbies are left to send for themselves. Its how I did everything when I joined 3 years ago. :(

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MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO
Briank
Member

Posts: 80
Unit: GLR-MI-063

« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2018, 05:52:16 AM »

As someone now about to start his 4th year still struggling to get my Form 5 and MS done...  Make sure they're included in notifications about events/training.  My biggest issue over the years has been not even hearing about things until after they are over and then hearing it second hand.  Seems like only current aircrew get notified of training...  Hard to break into the aircrew club if you don't get invited to anything until after you're already in it.  Finally starting to feel like I'm gaining ground now, but it's been a long discouraging road.
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dwb
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,342

« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2018, 07:08:11 AM »

I don't know the full story, but even in my squadron with a bunch of people who want to help, we still have mixed results getting pilots on-boarded.

We've gotten much better at getting Level I completed, Plan of Action filled out, and contacts made with local IPs and other MS/MO qualified people to start training. We reduced the average time from "indefinite" to "about a month", which is good for CAP. F&Ps for MS are much quicker turnaround now too, but it does take a conscious effort on the part of the staff to button it down.

That said.. it also requires a bit of lifting on the part of the new member. They have to attend meetings. They have to make arrangements with the IP to get in the plane and get ready for Form 5. I have found that some military and commercial pilots struggle with that part; they're not used to the open-endedness of it.

We set those expectations before people join now, and we've had a better rate of success. We let them know everyone is available to help, but we don't know which days/times they are available, because we only see them for two hours a week. You want to fly, you have to state your availability. We don't tell you when and where.

When I got back into the air, I went from "hasn't flown in 11 1/2 years" to "Current Form 5 Pilot" in under 90 days. In the winter. As a single parent with a full-time job. It can be done. I had the benefit of having been in CAP for a long time, so I know how it works.
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OldGuy
Seasoned Member

Posts: 456
Unit: TBKS

« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2018, 08:29:35 AM »

I had the benefit of having been in CAP for a long time, so I know how it works.
This is why the SM program needs to adopt a form of the CP "Wingman" concept. I had a phenomenal mentor so in my first year I was able to get a tone of work done - GES, Level I and II, two tech badges plus AC wings. I have one more FEMA course and the balance of 18 months TIG to get to Level III and railroad tracks.

Absent that mentor I would be floundering towards near nothing.
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Hawk200
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 4,604

« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2018, 08:54:33 AM »

I had the benefit of having been in CAP for a long time, so I know how it works.
This is why the SM program needs to adopt a form of the CP "Wingman" concept. I had a phenomenal mentor so in my first year I was able to get a tone of work done - GES, Level I and II, two tech badges plus AC wings. I have one more FEMA course and the balance of 18 months TIG to get to Level III and railroad tracks.

Absent that mentor I would be floundering towards near nothing.
In both the military, and a few companies I've worked at, we had what we simply called a "sponsor." That person was the one that takes you around the various offices that you need to visit, helps you with paperwork.

Most of the places had a "sponsor package," kind of an inprocessing checklist. As the "newbie," you would receive one, then your "sponsor" would sit down with you, tell you where all the places were that you needed to visit, and then would take you to all those places.

Sounds like we could stand to get such a program together for CAP. No telling how many people we lose because things aren't getting done. Retention is just as important as recruiting.
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Spaceman3750
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,654

« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2018, 10:25:49 AM »

Two months is barely enough time to get the membership package processed, do Level 1, get a uniform, and acclimate to what’s going on around you. Two months sounds like an excellent time to start MS, not have it done.

Not to excuse a lack of mentorship, but as a commander I benefit greatly from a personable instructor/check pilot who takes new air-focused members and mentors them. Nothing is stopping you from doing that yourself and it will free up the commander’s focus for the hundred other spinning plates he is responsible.

Stop complaining and get to work.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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The moment any commander or staff member considers themselves a gatekeeper, instead of a facilitator, they have failed at their job.
I can't fix all of CAP's problems, but I can lead from the bottom by building my squadron as a center of excellence to serve as an example of what every unit can be.
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,109

« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2018, 10:27:19 AM »

It's required this member have an assigned mentor - that person should be working with the member to guide him through the process.

Two months is barely enough time to get the membership package processed, do Level 1, get a uniform, and acclimate to what’s going on around you. Two months sounds like an excellent time to start MS, not have it done.

Also this ^^.

Also Summer can be the hardest time to get spun up in most Wings as aircraft are gone at encampments, NCSAs, etc.

It's not unheard of to be able to get a Form 5 done in the first couple of months, but that usually requires some serendipity and
a lot of personal initiative.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2018, 10:30:28 AM by Eclipse » Logged


etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,257

« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2018, 11:57:06 AM »

It's required this member have an assigned mentor - that person should be working with the member to guide him through the process.


I'll look into that. Its not being done here.

When I joined, I was highly motivated to just "get it done" and bugged the CFIs to make it happen. Within 6 months of joining I completed MS, MO, AP, and MP.  I didn't wait for SAREX time. Did some of it with C-12 flights so I wouldn't have to wait on free flights at SAREXs.
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,109

« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2018, 01:08:09 PM »

It's required this member have an assigned mentor - that person should be working with the member to guide him through the process.


I'll look into that. Its not being done here.

This is the root cause of the issue.
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NIN
VIP

Posts: 4,956
Unit: of issue

« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2018, 04:06:25 PM »

Also Summer can be the hardest time to get spun up in most Wings as aircraft are gone at encampments, NCSAs, etc.

However, winter is a terrible time to get spun up, because: weather.

Pick your poison. I'd rather try to get a pilot spun up in the summer flying months, scheduled around a week of encampment O-flights or a Flight Academy than weeks of "we're not sure we can fly" in November or February.

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Darin Ninness, Lt Col, CAP
Sq Bubba, Wing Dude, National Guy
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2018 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.
MacGruff
Seasoned Member

Posts: 346

« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2018, 07:52:49 PM »

The lack of mentors is really the biggest bugaboo out there - and that goes for pilots, as much as for any other aspect of CAP for Senior Members. Squadron Commanders are required - REQUIRED - to appoint a mentor for every new SM that joins their squadrons. My guess is that less than 5% do and about that same amount even know that they are responsible for doing so.

For pilots, it seems to be about the same. Unless they happen to join a squadron that has other pilots already enrolled in it who help them, they have no one who will tell them that they first have to qualify as Air Crew and work their way "up" the system.

I will not get in to the debate of whether it's easier to get airtime in the winter or the summer as I am in an area where the nearest airplane is about a two hour drive away for most of the folks who join the 6 squadrons near me ... so that's another obstacle...

I believe though, that if we at least had a corps of mentors who worked with the new members, that things would radically improve. I do so in my unit and preach it within my wing.
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OldGuy
Seasoned Member

Posts: 456
Unit: TBKS

« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2018, 08:14:45 PM »

The lack of mentors is really the biggest bugaboo out there - and that goes for pilots, as much as for any other aspect of CAP for Senior Members. Squadron Commanders are required - REQUIRED - to appoint a mentor for every new SM that joins their squadrons. My guess is that less than 5% do and about that same amount even know that they are responsible for doing so.

For pilots, it seems to be about the same. Unless they happen to join a squadron that has other pilots already enrolled in it who help them, they have no one who will tell them that they first have to qualify as Air Crew and work their way "up" the system.

I will not get in to the debate of whether it's easier to get airtime in the winter or the summer as I am in an area where the nearest airplane is about a two hour drive away for most of the folks who join the 6 squadrons near me ... so that's another obstacle...

I believe though, that if we at least had a corps of mentors who worked with the new members, that things would radically improve. I do so in my unit and preach it within my wing.
Preach it loud and often! It is the absolute truth and makes all the difference in the world.
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etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,257

« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2018, 08:55:14 PM »


For pilots, it seems to be about the same. Unless they happen to join a squadron that has other pilots already enrolled in it who help them, they have no one who will tell them that they first have to qualify as Air Crew and work their way "up" the system.


As I hear more about other squadrons and Wings, I'm becoming more and more aware of how fortunate I am in mine. We do have the problems I've mentioned, but we do have a plane, several current pilots, and two CFIs.  Now we just need the system to help jumpstart new members. A mentoring system is obviously a must. Thanks for the replies.
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MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,109

« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2018, 11:39:08 PM »

I believe though, that if we at least had a corps of mentors who worked with the new members, that things would radically improve. I do so in my unit and preach it within my wing.

If only the ORGANIZATION(al) had some sort of "program" to identify and appoint SMEs
in the various wings to be ready and serve as mentors.  Not that would be EXCELLENCE!

Or perhaps even a track a COMMAND TRACK to help new CCs.
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Hawk200
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 4,604

« Reply #14 on: September 23, 2018, 07:21:21 AM »

Unless they happen to join a squadron that has other pilots already enrolled in it who help them, they have no one who will tell them that they first have to qualify as Air Crew and work their way "up" the system.

I wasn't aware of this, but it's been many years since I was a commander, and I've only done the Mission Scanner course.

For future reference, where might I find (in the pubs) that this is the path to take? For new folks coming in, I'd probably type up a nice, little, one sheet, info page on what they need to progress to a pilot position.
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NIN
VIP

Posts: 4,956
Unit: of issue

« Reply #15 on: September 23, 2018, 09:06:28 AM »

For new folks coming in, I'd probably type up a nice, little, one sheet, info page on what they need to progress to a pilot position.

I got this from another guy in my wing, it came from HQ/DOV this summer.  I'm trying to reformat it to be a little more "user friendly" (ie. "dat background")
 
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Darin Ninness, Lt Col, CAP
Sq Bubba, Wing Dude, National Guy
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2018 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.
Hawk200
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 4,604

« Reply #16 on: September 23, 2018, 09:56:22 AM »

For new folks coming in, I'd probably type up a nice, little, one sheet, info page on what they need to progress to a pilot position.

I got this from another guy in my wing, it came from HQ/DOV this summer.  I'm trying to reformat it to be a little more "user friendly" (ie. "dat background")

That will be handy. Thank you.
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CAP_truth
Seasoned Member

Posts: 252

« Reply #17 on: September 23, 2018, 10:39:35 AM »

Some years ago 2004 I was group Professional Development Officer. I would contact new members and schedule a Senior Level I class every 90 days. All new members were invited to attend. I also conducted an advanced Level I over 13 weeks via mentoring covering ES101, comm., preparing for ECI13, and officer training. On the 13 week we would hold a graduation ceremony. Also, I acted as a councilor for all senior members advising them on what is needed for advancement within the senior program.
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Cadet CoP
Wilson
Hawk200
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 4,604

« Reply #18 on: September 23, 2018, 11:07:04 AM »

Some years ago 2004 I was group Professional Development Officer. I would contact new members and schedule a Senior Level I class every 90 days. All new members were invited to attend. I also conducted an advanced Level I over 13 weeks via mentoring covering ES101, comm., preparing for ECI13, and officer training. On the 13 week we would hold a graduation ceremony. Also, I acted as a councilor for all senior members advising them on what is needed for advancement within the senior program.

I tried to do Level 1 on a monthly basis. It was almost always the first meeting in the month. I think for about six months straight, I was giving one.

In most of the units I was in, we had a Saturday meeting about once a quarter. I usually covered ProDev, and pushed enrollment in the officer courses.
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CAP Talk  |  Operations  |  Aviation & Flying Activities  |  Topic: New Pilot Recruit Walks In ....
 


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