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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Membership  |  Topic: Chain of Support - New Guy Question
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hfriday
Recruit

Posts: 11
Unit: NER-VT-034

« on: September 13, 2018, 08:00:49 AM »

I'm pretty clear on chain of command as a veteran, but CAP also has a somewhat different structure in which, as a unit PDO, for example, I should be in close contact with my wing PDO in order to be compliant with wing policies and to facilitate PDO opportunities for my squadron. This keeps all business items from being routed through the commanders, who would presumably be buried in these things.

What I am finding is that many of the guys in my unit don't know how to access their wing-level counterparts. The wing website has some of these positions listed, but others - say, personnel - don't seem to have a footprint on the website. In practical terms, this means that as a PDO, when I let our personnel officer know he can submit this or that promotion paperwork, and it is kicked back as needing wing approval, we don't know how to access that other than going to the wing commander directly (a chain of command no-no, in my mind) or to use the "good-old-boy-system" and call someone we happen to know who might know something about who we should talk to (a frequent dead-end).

Is there some mechanism on eServices that I have not yet found listing the personnel for all positions in the wing? I would expect there to be some kind of directory of all personnel, their duty position, their unit, and their contact information, to enable units to better collaborate without the wing commander having to deal with every single issue. Does such a thing exist? If so, where? If not, how do I as a lowly SM try to make one happen? It would save us a lot of time and wasted energy.

Thanks as always for the input!
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 28,946

« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2018, 08:07:34 AM »

Is there some mechanism on eServices that I have not yet found listing the personnel for all positions in the wing?

No.

Best bet is simply ask the next higher HQ who those people are.

Lists, websites, and similar tend to go stale fast, people are transient, etc., etc.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2018, 08:12:11 AM by Eclipse » Logged


hfriday
Recruit

Posts: 11
Unit: NER-VT-034

« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2018, 09:02:15 AM »

Gotcha. I hadn't considered the ever-changing assignment of positions in CAP. It's a shame eServices can't just generate such a list, since I can access my unit's duty positions (at least on paper) in real time.

Thanks as always.
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 28,946

« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2018, 09:49:13 AM »

Just like the unit report, the wing can run those same duty assignment reports
for the whole wing or any level, however my experience has been they may not be accurate or useful.

They show who the "of record" people are, but being "of record" doesn't mean you're an SME,
or for that matter anyone has seen you in months (or ever).

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TheSkyHornet
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,395

« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2018, 11:53:59 AM »

You're on the right track. You just have to find out what works for you in your role, and if you can give some guidance to the others (even if they're more experienced), once you find it, go for it; share.

Kudos to being the rookie who has the ability to search and ask.

Welcome to CAP, Sir.
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supertigerCH
Forum Regular

Posts: 137

« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2018, 03:06:44 PM »

Okay I know this might sound overly simple, but as most of us have experienced... "simple" is often the best solution.  So just thinking about the following:


Would something as simple as establishing an official e-mail address (for each staff position) work?  In other words, e-mail addresses that are used only by whichever people are currently in those positions?)

For example, you mentioned personnel =

ohioCAPpersonnel@---.com
texasCAPpersonnel@---.com
oregonCAPpersonnel@---.com

or

kansasCAPcommunications@---.com
wisconsinCAPrecruiting@---.com
wyomingCAPadministration@---.com

Accounts like this could be created for every wing staff position.  Once a person moves out of that position, and is replaced with another person... the new member/officer takes control of the account.

This way the operation of the messages is not tied to one single person, or e-mail/phone number.  We all know that people come & go.  Sometimes they even disappear or mysteriously become out of touch... taking their personal e-mail & phone numbers with them.

With something like this... messages would continue to flow to a collection point regardless of who is in the position (a new person can always be designated to take over the position or handle messages if necessary).

It seems like accounts like this could be created on any quality/reputable public e-mail system.  If CAP would rather have it be more secure, or on their own systems... then they certainly could...

example =

nevadaCAPpersonnel@cap.gov
georgiaCAPpersonnel@cap.gov


Of course, people would obviously work with their current wing staff (and maybe region?)... in order to "formally" get something like this off the ground & started.  It seems though, that it just might simplify & solve some of the problems people were talking about.

Would something as simple as this (or other similar ideas) be a good enough solution?

« Last Edit: September 13, 2018, 03:22:06 PM by supertigerCH » Logged
Holding Pattern
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,273
Unit: Worry

« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2018, 03:19:58 PM »

Many wings have email aliases already set up using office symbols. I know WAWG does, and it seriously takes the guesswork out of things. They also keep the staff directory updated.
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supertigerCH
Forum Regular

Posts: 137

« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2018, 03:25:20 PM »

nice to hear that some wings are already doing something like this.

if as you say, it works pretty well... i wonder if more wings/regions would also benefit... by moving to something like that?
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THRAWN
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,873

« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2018, 03:27:55 PM »

No rush. It's only been around for 15 years.

nice to hear that some wings are already doing something like this.

if as you say, it works pretty well... i wonder if more wings/regions would also benefit... by moving to something like that?
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Strup
"Belligerent....at times...."
AFRCC SMC 10-97
NSS ISC 05-00
USAF SOS 2000
USAF ACSC 2011
US NWC 2016
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 28,946

« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2018, 03:45:29 PM »

This is a reasonable idea that any professional organization looking to make members participation easier
would adopt as a matter of course.

It only requires that wings standardize and maintain their email systems timely, members
who leave or transition to other jobs notify their superiors when that occurs, and for
it to be effective nationally, the wings should be using a standardized domain structure and
set of office addresses.

Of course this would have to be implemented in a universe where national staffers still use and publish
their personal email addresses in formal collateral, and it takes 4-10 years to update publications, and
assumes there is someone to maintain that system.

So, you know, there you go...
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supertigerCH
Forum Regular

Posts: 137

« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2018, 03:35:56 PM »

It only requires that wings standardize and maintain their email systems timely, members
who leave or transition to other jobs notify their superiors when that occurs...


Yes... or in the case that the member responsible for that office (checking the e-mail account) disappears, falls off the map, or leaves CAP... the appropriate commander would have the information needed to log in and manage the messages -- until a new person moves into the position.

From a few of the responses I'm reading here... a few CAP wings (and regions?) have taken the initiative and have been handling their e-mails like this for some time already (which is good).

I do understand the reasons why it sometimes takes an organization like CAP (with 50+ wings) many years for an idea to spread far and wide.  Even if something turns out to be a good common sense idea... (1.) CAP is a volunteer organization... and (2.) each of the wings spread across the whole country get to decide what works best for them (at least on a number of day-to-day issues).

It can take a long time for even a simple idea to slowly be adopted by 50+ wings... all managing their day to day goings on separately.

Like most people... I'm open to lots of ideas... and their are sure to be other great ones out there as well.  This one seems to be about as simple and straight forward (and common sense) as you can get. 

Anyway... hope all wings find a way that works.  Whatever management plan they use is great... as long as it solves problems and gets the job done.  That's what matters at the end of the day.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2018, 03:55:02 PM by supertigerCH » Logged
GaryVC
Forum Regular

Posts: 183
Unit: PCR-NV-070

« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2018, 05:44:21 PM »

Here are my suggestions. Unless you are the commander or deputy commander for seniors (if you have one) they would apply to you. I did spend some time at a MAJCOM during my Air Force career and was used to going directly to higher headquarters if I needed to. Some people in CAP are touchy (unnecessarily) about that.  Like us you probably have a small number of people in your wing. Here are my suggestions.

Our wing has some (but not all) staff officers listed on the wing website. If you have something like that it is a good place to start.

Participate in as many wing-wide/multi squadron activities as you can. Especially activities such as encampment and wing conferences. This will help you learn who the key people are.

If your squadron can't point you in the right direction, contact the wing chief of staff. They should be able to help you identify the person you need to contact.


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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Membership  |  Topic: Chain of Support - New Guy Question
 


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