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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  The Lobby  |  Topic: USCGAux and BSA
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MovingOnToOtherThings
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,300

« on: September 08, 2018, 10:42:05 PM »

http://www.ss300.org/USCGA-partnership-09-04-18.pdf

Interesting read.
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Always seeking to learn.
LATORRECA
Seasoned Member

Posts: 240

« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2018, 06:48:07 AM »

Very interesting since yesterday I had a organizational day and the only service with no youth program was the Coast Guard.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

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TheSkyHornet
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,474

« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2018, 03:00:39 PM »

So they're basically affiliating another organization's program as their own?

I never really understood how this works. The Sea Scouts are a part of BSA (formerly the Boy Scouts, obviously). They had an affiliation with the Coast Guard to train in a maritime capacity, with unique Coast Guard-assisted experiences (much like that between CAP and the Air Force).

But the Sea Scouts were never under the oversight of the Coast Guard, nor the Coast Guard Auxiliary. They still aren't. So even though the Sea Scouts are now recognized as the official youth cadet corps of the Coast Guard Auxiliary, the CGAux has no direct oversight of the Sea Scouts. CG Aux members aren't cadre to the cadets, like CAP senior members are. They help train their scouts from time to time on vessels.

Why wouldn't the CG Aux want to start up a youth corps under their own oversight with similar opportunities?

Maybe it's cost effective for the CG Aux? It just seems clunky. I dunno...
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,109

« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2018, 03:06:13 PM »

It's no different then the MOA/Us CAP signs on a regular basis.

"We recognize the existence of each other and encourage participation."

Nothing more, nothing less.   It won't make then "CGAUx Cadets", nor probably
change anything in regards to regular activities or interactions.

Ramping up a legitimate cadet program is no small endeavor, nor is it devoid
of risk and issues (a mother scorned is nothing to trifle with), it would be
interesting to know whether their current charter would even allow it, owing to
their supposed closer relationship to the parent service.

Having an MOA makes people feel good and ends there.  Having a cadet program
means doubling the membership and opening Pandora's box, starting with
"I didn't come here to have to deal with kids..." (heard far too often coming from
seasoned CAP members).
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,109

« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2018, 03:11:40 PM »

Also, judged only from hearsay and news articles from my own kids'
participation, there seems to be somewhat of a "disturbance in the BSA force"
right now, with the organization struggling for viability, relevance, and membership,
renaming  in the current climate, coupled with their recent announcement of accepting
girls as members and even renaming the Boy Scouts to "Scouts BSA".

I would imagine anything that portends to bring some level of credibility with
larger / similar organizations is being considered.
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TheSkyHornet
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,474

« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2018, 03:38:28 PM »

Also, judged only from hearsay and news articles from my own kids'
participation, there seems to be somewhat of a "disturbance in the BSA force"
right now, with the organization struggling for viability, relevance, and membership,
renaming  in the current climate, coupled with their recent announcement of accepting
girls as members and even renaming the Boy Scouts to "Scouts BSA".

I would imagine anything that portends to bring some level of credibility with
larger / similar organizations is being considered.

Now that I can totally understand.

It just seems like this was a claim of "This is our cadet program" when it's basically an MOU.
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RiverAux
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 10,968

« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2018, 03:50:27 PM »

it would be interesting to know whether their current charter would even allow it, owing to
their supposed closer relationship to the parent service.

The Coast Guard Auxiliary doesn't have a charter.  The applicable federal legislation would be
Quote
14 USC Section 822
The purpose of the Auxiliary is to assist the Coast Guard as authorized by the Commandant, in performing any Coast Guard function, power, duty, role, mission, or operation authorized by law.

So, if the Commandant says that helping out the Sea Scouts fulfills a Coast Guard function, then we can do it.  Seeing as how this seems to be focused on boating education and, to some extent, Coast Guard recruiting, it fits in with traditional Aux activities.

A few years back our flotilla sort of started developing a relationship with a local Sea Scout group, but other than one of their adults and his kid joining for a few years not much came of it (The Scout group fell apart).  I don't think that there was a lot of interest in the Aux members towards doing a lot with them, in part because of the vagueness of the rules on such things. 

The Aux has been pushing fairly hard to develop university-based flotillas with some mild level of success, but my guess is that this relationship won't go far.
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,109

« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2018, 04:03:57 PM »

Means about the same thing as Sloan Valve's involvement with the Cubs.

A logo on the truck.
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RRLE
Seasoned Member

Posts: 492

« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2018, 09:04:15 AM »

There are a few interesting things about the announcement, the most telling is that it comes from the USCG Aux and not the USCG.

The reason for the interest is that on its face, the relationship is a clear violation of the USCG Commandant Instruction (COMDTINST) Auxiliary Manual (AuxMan). The AuxMan is THE ruling document of the USCG Aux and it surpasses all other manuals, unless in a specific area and a more current date; 'for example a more recent Operations Policy Manual (OPSPOLMAN) could override the AuxMan relating to boat, aircraft or radio operations. With that said, what does the AuxMan say about youth organizations (in the quote PE is an abbreviation for Public (boating) Education:

AuxMan 2.B.24. Programs Not Authorized for Auxiliarists

Quote
Auxiliarists and Auxiliary units are not authorized to directly sponsor any youth groups or training programs such as:
a. Jaycee Jr. Yacht Clubs
b. Youth Regatta Programs
c. Sea Exploring
d. Boy/Girl Scouts
e. Jr. ROTC
f. Naval Sea Cadets
g. Similar organizational entities unless specifically approved by the Commandant

PE programs or Coast Guard active duty prototype support initiatives may be offered, but Auxiliary participation in such programs (other than PE and other support activities specifically approved by the Commandant) shall be as a private citizen, not as an Auxiliarist. This sponsorship prohibition does not restrict providing the normal Auxiliary programs available to any other citizen or organization within the scope of available personnel and equipment resources to do so, or in attending such functions as the National Scouting Jamborees or similar events.

This could be legit and there might be some "double secret" approval from the Commandant, but that should have been made clear, otherwise it looks like the Aux ran "off the reservation" again.
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,109

« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2018, 09:34:57 AM »

Interesting to see organizations similar to CAP have their own issues with both
following their own regulations as well as proper publications management.
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TheSkyHornet
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,474

« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2018, 03:43:42 PM »

Interesting to see organizations similar to CAP have their own issues with both
following their own regulations as well as proper publications management.

Maybe they have a revision coming out in 2025?
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,109

« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2018, 05:10:04 PM »

Interesting to see organizations similar to CAP have their own issues with both
following their own regulations as well as proper publications management.

Maybe they have a revision coming out in 2025?

Probably.

Akin to CAP's ICL's their AuxMan was revised in both 2012 and 2014 but is still dated 2011,
and then was published using the "track changes" function, which is both humoros and effective.

CAP should consider something similar, when for "reasons" no one can find the copy of Acrobat
and just fix the authoritative documents.
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