CAP phase-in time for ABU's

[RogueLeader]

For tapes, please see new poll at http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=2402.0

[Hawk200]

Personally speaking, shaking my little crystal ball......I see a phase in of either the ACU (Army) or the ABU (AF) somtime during 2009-2010. The phase in will be 3 years. 

Most proably what will happen is ABU, after the 2011 mandate of the Air Force. Give us 3-5 years to Phase us in.

Considering that the AF doesn't want it's Airman wearing ACU's, I seriously doubt ACU's will be considered. Besides, from what we've heard, the ABU has already been discussed for CAP.

No way. It's unlikely that the present BDU will be available after 2011. There might not even be a Blue BDU available after 2011.

I wouldn't say go that far.  Most Police/SWAT teams wear the BDU and BBDU, and most likely will continue to after 2011.  Someone will have to continue to outfit them.  I think CAP won't have to worry about a shortage of BBDUs for at least 15 years.      

You're a little behind the times. Many SWAT Teams are already ditching the BDU in favor of other designs. The 5.11 TDU and HRT outfits are popular, and a few teams are wearing single color versions of the ACU. There are even versions of MCUU's that are being used. The BDU is going extinct. Time will tell how long it will take, but I'm placing bets on it being very uncommon within the next two to three years. And gone in five.

This would look good and distinctive.

I like it. Now all we gotta do is get someone to approach Pineda just before he goes into a uniform board with a sample in hand to show him. That's how the blue beanie got approved for national wear wasn't it?

[Pylon]

What about "ultramarine blue" writing on ABU background?  The Air Force can have their "Midnight blue", we'll have "ultramarine" or "CAP blue".

I like the concept!  Would have to see a mock-up however to tell how bad it looks and if the colors clash or look garish.

[Viper QA]

I'd be very surprised if CAP switched to the ABU anytime soon. The mandatory wear date for those of us in the Air Force isn't until like 2011 or 2012. The AF's original plan was to start issuing them to folks deploying in the next AEF cycle, but I don't know if that happened or not because there was some problems with the ABU production.

I wear the USAF uniform for a living & have been deployed all over the globe it in. I have no issue with CAP folks wearing the USAF style uniform. CAP is the USAF Auxiliary & should wear it. I don't think it is an insult for CAP folks to wear BDUs.

I hope CAP eventually switches to the ABU to stay in line with the USAF. They need to figure out a way for the CAP insignia to not look silly on the ABU. I hope they do away with all the patches & just have name tapes, rank, & speciality badges (above the CAP tape) just like the AF did. CAP has too many colored patches that are not necessary.

Those of you who are ES troops can wear the BBDU if CAP ever did away with the camo uniforms. I hope they don't because I think we need the USAF uniform, but you don't need camo do do an ES mission.

Just my 2 cents...

[PHall]

Personally, I don't think we will be able to get BDU's, at least from AAFES, after 2008.

You look in clothing sales and there are more empty, back ordered shelves then there are one's that have BDU's on them.

Talking to the Manager of the Clothing Sales store at March ARB, he said the word he got was that the contractor who makes woodland BDU's is converting over to ABU's at the end of the year.

Either they're going to have to push up the date when CAP will be allowed to wear the ABU or we better start learning to like the Blue BDU, because new BDU's, at least from AAFES, will be very hard to come by.

[SARMedTech]

There are so many companies producing or maintaining a stock of BDUs. US CAV stocks them. Propper produces mil-spec BDU woodlands, etc, etc.

I also agree though that ES should wear BBDUs or other "TDU" rather than BDU.

[RogueLeader]

Cadets can't.  even if the regs allowed for BBDU's to be worn by cadets, most can't afford to to buy them.  I also doubt that most squadrons can buy them either.  I don't think that DRMO carries them, as they are not Military uniforms.

[JayT]

Cadets can't.  even if the regs allowed for BBDU's to be worn by cadets, most can't afford to to buy them.  I also doubt that most squadrons can buy them either.  I don't think that DRMO carries them, as they are not Military uniforms.

I've actually worn Blue BDUS and Blue Utilies for several months now, proberly almost a year actually. I think they present a more professional apperence.

[RogueLeader]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the regs state that Cadets will wear the AF style uniforms.

[RogueLeader]

Not to mention that the thread has gotten of topic.

[JayT]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the regs state that Cadets will wear the AF style uniforms.

You are indeed wrong Lieutenant.

[RogueLeader]

^See above
Was meant to go to PM w/ corrections

[JCJ]

MCSS at Kirtland has the ABU's on the shelf.  I was surprised becasue I thought that they would get the initial issue & issue to deployed troops problems sorted out before they hit the MCSS shelves.

Now having seen them in person, i'm not as impressed as I thought I would be.  Not that I think they're bad, they really look OK.  While I know that there are alot of new features, they reminded me mostly of the old BDU's - just now with a different color.  They aren't anywhere near as radical a change as the BDU to ACU was.

[Hawk200]

MCSS at Kirtland has the ABU's on the shelf.  I was surprised becasue I thought that they would get the initial issue & issue to deployed troops problems sorted out before they hit the MCSS shelves.

Now having seen them in person, i'm not as impressed as I thought I would be.  Not that I think they're bad, they really look OK.  While I know that there are alot of new features, they reminded me mostly of the old BDU's - just now with a different color.  They aren't anywhere near as radical a change as the BDU to ACU was.

They are a BDU, essentially. The only difference was a lower left hand sleeve pocket, internal map pockets on the shirt, calf pockets, and an elasticized waist. That's it. If you regularly dressed in the dark, someone could change out your BDU's with ABU's, and you probably wouldn't even know it til you got out in the light.

From what I've read, the material is a little heavier, but not much more than the NYCO winterweight BDU's.

[Hawk200]

I think they present a more professional apperence.

OK, I haven't bothered til now, but: How does a blue BDU have a more professional appearance than woodlands?

Can someone explain this to me?

[SARMedTech]

MCSS at Kirtland has the ABU's on the shelf.  I was surprised becasue I thought that they would get the initial issue & issue to deployed troops problems sorted out before they hit the MCSS shelves.

Now having seen them in person, i'm not as impressed as I thought I would be.  Not that I think they're bad, they really look OK.  While I know that there are alot of new features, they reminded me mostly of the old BDU's - just now with a different color.  They aren't anywhere near as radical a change as the BDU to ACU was.

They are a BDU, essentially. The only difference was a lower left hand sleeve pocket, internal map pockets on the shirt, calf pockets, and an elasticized waist. That's it. If you regularly dressed in the dark, someone could change out your BDU's with ABU's, and you probably wouldn't even know it til you got out in the light.

From what I've read, the material is a little heavier, but not much more than the NYCO winterweight BDU's.

Wait..arent we supposed to get dressed in the dark..it would explain the uniform snafus.

[SARMedTech]

Cadets can't.  even if the regs allowed for BBDU's to be worn by cadets, most can't afford to to buy them.  I also doubt that most squadrons can buy them either.  I don't think that DRMO carries them, as they are not Military uniforms.

I've actually worn Blue BDUS and Blue Utilies for several months now, proberly almost a year actually. I think they present a more professional apperence.

Since we are off thread here for a second anyway...our squadron STRONGLY disourages (like says "Don't") ranger roll your caps. Cant tell but it looks like you have yours rolled...dont get me wrong, you look really high speed, but still... I know we have alot of retired and even current Army among us and that for cadets ranger rolling kind of is a badge of honor from HMRS but I thought it was not allowed. I dont think it looks bad and I understand the attraction for cadets to do it...gives that elite special something...I dont know...is anyone following me here?. And I apologize if your cap isnt rolled..just from the angle, it looks that way.

[CadetProgramGuy]

The big beef I have with correcting members posts here is that there seems to be a lack of proof.

I ask you that if you choose to correct another member, you back up your informaiton.

For RL.....BBDU's are authorized for both cadets and officers by CAPM 39-1, 4-2, c & d

For SarMedTech....I cannot find the PM giving authorization for Blue Berets and Ranger Rolls from National, but I know it is out there.  I can forward you a copy of my wing's PM if you would like to see it.

[Viper QA]

I would not go as far as to say that the BBDU looks more professional than the woodland BDU, but it does look like everything fits together vs. bright colored patches on a camo uniform. I wear the woodland BDU because that is what our parent service wears.

If/when the woodland BDU becomes scarce & if CAP decides to switch to the BBDU, I'll wear it. I hope CAP does not go that route & follows the AF into the ABU. I have noting against the BBDU & as I said I think it looks pretty good, but I think we need to wear the uniform of our parent service.

It is interesting to hear the the ABU is available in some MCS stores. I wear the USAF uniform for a living & we were told that the ABU would not be available for purchase or issued (except AEF deployers) until into 2008. We were briefed all assets were going to the next AEF cycle deployers to replace the desert BDUs.

[Viper QA]

Nothing against the "Rangers" here, but I would never wear a baseball style cap without rolling the brim. A flat (straight) brim on a ball cap looks ridicules.

In 20+ years in CAP I have never heard or been told not to roll the brim of my CAP. I have never been to Hawk, but to equate rolling the brim of your cap to a "badge of honor" seems kind of silly. No slight intended to the Rangers...just my 2 cents.