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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Uniforms & Awards  |  Topic: DoD Civilian/Soldier?
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francisderosa16
Member

Posts: 72

« on: August 18, 2018, 09:17:06 AM »

Hello,
I recently encountered a man wearing ACUs, [on an USAF base] with a tape saying DoD Civilian, not Army? He had a Lt. Colonel's rank on too? I did not know whether to salute him or not because of his name tape? I told my chain of command this too, they didn't know whether to salute or not either.
Any thoughts?

V/R
Cadet Airman
DeRosa
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,234

« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2018, 10:09:09 AM »

You salute the grade, not the nametape.  The amount of time you spent typing this message was
more time then you needed to waste mentally on the issue.

The practical reality is that he is probably a contractor and probably a retired Lt Col.

Beyond that, FIMO.
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Hawk200
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 4,626

« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2018, 10:13:50 AM »

Just salute it. If you're wrong, he'd probably explain it to you. If he doesn't, it's not like you've created a problem.

"If in doubt, whip it out."

I'm curious as to why someone would wear such a thing in that manner, but if I don't get an answer, I don't care. You'll rarely get in trouble for saluting when you're not supposed to. You will get in trouble for not saluting when you should.
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Capmonkey
Forum Regular

Posts: 107

« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2018, 11:55:43 AM »

One phrase both seniors and, as a cadet that you should live by: "When in doubt, salute". No further comment, cadet.

C/Lt. Col Capmonkey
« Last Edit: August 18, 2018, 01:28:45 PM by Capmonkey » Logged
darkmatter
Forum Regular

Posts: 158

« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2018, 12:07:21 PM »

One phrase you as a cadet should live by: "When in doubt, salute". No further comment, cadet.

C/Lt. Col Capmonkey

Seniors as well, seniors aren't above saluting.
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Hawk200
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 4,626

« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2018, 12:19:13 PM »

One phrase you as a cadet should live by: "When in doubt, salute". No further comment, cadet.

C/Lt. Col Capmonkey

Seniors as well, seniors aren't above saluting.

Agreed.
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EMT-83
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,886

« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2018, 02:34:58 PM »

And if someone salutes you in error, just return it and move on. No need to engage in a lengthy discussion.
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abdsp51
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,591
Unit: Classified

« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2018, 04:23:58 PM »

You salute the grade, not the nametape.  The amount of time you spent typing this message was
more time then you needed to waste mentally on the issue.

The practical reality is that he is probably a contractor and probably a retired Lt Col.

Beyond that, FIMO.

Either way if he is a contractor/DOD civilian he/she doesn't wear grade insignia they were a US.   And I find it odd a contractor/civilian is wearing a uniform CONUS.  Usually its reserved for the AOR. 

Sounds like a possible poser...
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Spam
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,141
Unit: GA-001

« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2018, 04:38:41 PM »

Cadet DeRosa:


I currently work with a number of retired (officer and warrant officer) pilots, who are employed as DACs (Department of the Army Civilians) in flying jobs. They train evaluate and mentor current active duty aviators in their Regiment, are addressed as "Sir" and wear OCPs with "DAC" tabs. They are not in leadership billets (any more) but continue to draw pay as highly respected, veteran technical support professionals. They are currently operating stateside as well as OCONUS. Some few of them do continue to wear prior grade insignia alongside their clear DoD Civilian designation.


This may seem a bit unusual but is not unheard of. I am a former DoD civilian myself and on occasion wore a standard nomex green flight suit myself while flying in Navy/USMC aircraft.  I've even been asked recently if I can support some flight tests planned this winter, flying in back, but as I don't meet uniform requirements due to weight I'm probably going to defer and pick someone else in my office to fly for me (ugh) (and No, you'd never see me with my Lt Col insignia on it).


Bottom line: they are in all probability quite legit, and you won't ever be blamed for rendering a proper salute in good faith.


V/r
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lordmonar
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 10,653

« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2018, 07:09:12 PM »

The practical reality is that he is probably a contractor and probably a retired Lt Col.
Most definitely no!

He was a  DOD Civilian.   Contractors are not allowed to wear DOD Civilian Name Tapes and are almost never given rank equivalence.

He was most likely a GS-14 with "command" authority.....which is rare....but does happen.   When stationed in Japan I was in a Joint Billet....the Director of the Operations Center I worked was a GS-15 who had operational control over the military personnel assigned to her Ops Center so she had O-6 equivalence. 

I see a lot of DOD/DAF/DA Civilians down range.....I never saw one wearing rank insignia......but it can happen.

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PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP
Pacific Region
CAPLTC
Forum Regular

Posts: 161
Unit: MER

« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2018, 04:12:40 PM »

You salute the grade, not the nametape.  The amount of time you spent typing this message was
more time then you needed to waste mentally on the issue.

The practical reality is that he is probably a contractor and probably a retired Lt Col.

Beyond that, FIMO.

Either way if he is a contractor/DOD civilian he/she doesn't wear grade insignia they were a US.   And I find it odd a contractor/civilian is wearing a uniform CONUS.  Usually its reserved for the AOR. 
Sounds like a possible poser...

Maybe not a poseur...
For example - there are contract security at a government facility where I work often.
The guards are contract employees hired by FPS who wear paramilitary uniforms identifying them as contractors but wear military-style rank.
The guys who zip around the perimeter on 4 wheelers wear flight suits or multicam ACUs. They all wear subdued Army/USAF rank through O6 ...
It's very confusing to a lot of people.

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"Find the enemy that wants to end this experiment (in American democracy) and kill every one of them until they’re so sick of the killing that they leave us and our freedoms intact." -- SECDEF Mattis
Spam
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,141
Unit: GA-001

« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2018, 08:43:00 PM »


Yeah, I'm with you on that. I've worked in areas with CLS guys (Wackenhut, etc.) who wear grade insignia. Some are real pros, and some didn't last out the period of performance of their contract.

In this specific case, the persons observed specifically had DoD Civilian tapes, though.

V/r
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