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CAP Talk  |  Cadet Programs  |  Cadet Programs Management & Activities  |  Topic: Pesky Parents...Again... Affecting their Cadets
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sarmed1
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 935

« Reply #20 on: August 27, 2018, 04:09:39 PM »

Reference CAPR 60-1, Chap 3, para 3.4.
Quote
3.4. Progressive  Discipline. Commanders will respond to cadet misconduct through a system of   
progressive discipline that is positive, incremental, and seeks both accountability and behavioral change
from the cadet. To discipline is to teach self-control and that actions have consequences. CAP prohibits
corporal  punishment,  including  the  use  of  exercise  as  punishment.
  Suspension  and  revocation  of  flying 
privileges is implemented separately from progressive cadet discipline, per CAPR 70-1.

emphasis mine
X 1000 agreed, this is such a major violation that it is shocking to me. If not addressed firmly and at once, the Wing CC needs to be advised.

I cant even remmeber how far back we go that this has been the policy.  It amazes me that this is even a practice that continues.  My memory is a little foggy,  has it been almost 20 years?

MK
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Mark Kleibscheidel
TSgt USAFR
MSG Mac
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,938
Unit: MER-MD-071

« Reply #21 on: August 27, 2018, 04:13:21 PM »

PT because someone makes a mistake of any type doesn't correct the mistake. Teach him/her what is wrong, how to fix it, and give them a deadline to show it was fixed.
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Michael P. McEleney
Lt Col CAP
MSG USA (Retired)
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,329

« Reply #22 on: August 27, 2018, 04:22:42 PM »

I cant even remmeber how far back we go that this has been the policy.  It amazes me that this is even a practice that continues.  My memory is a little foggy,  has it been almost 20 years?

MK

It's amazingly common, and you see it a lot in the encampment environment. 

You'd think it was just the newbs, but in those cases it means that the leadership is either ignorant or willfully negligent.

There are also a >lot< of cadets who twist themselves into logic knots about "incentive PT" and "if everyone does it, etc."
in attempts to hardkewl either their unit or an activity to look more like some movie they have seen and / or give them
a sword to hold over their subordinates.

Again, this is where the adults are supposed to intervene immediately.
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TheSkyHornet
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,563

« Reply #23 on: August 27, 2018, 04:32:39 PM »

Guys, regarding the PT thing... Let's not jump to conclusions just because a Cadet Airman made a random remark about it. There's no proof in that other than someone who has virtually no familiarity with the regulations making an off-the-cuff comment, which may very well be a complete misunderstanding (if not 'storytelling'). Not to discredit it or 'victim shame' here, but tread cautiously on that subject.

I wouldn't be so quick to try to involve helicopter parents as members unless it's in a role
that is clearly outside involvement with their cadet(s).  Parents who feel free to leverage personal relationships
and breach boundaries as non-members aren't likely to do so "less" as members with inside info and access.

Kind of my thought as well. Part of our parental recruiting process is to sit down and explain to new parents the fact that they need to minimize direct interaction with their cadet (during activities) unless it's an interface associated with their job (for example, our Cadet Operations Officer was the son of our Activities Officer...they're bound to run into each other). I had worked with a SM parent a while back that could not step away from being her son's mother during CAP activities, pulling him aside to correct him or remind him of what he's supposed to be doing. When it was addressed with her, it did not go very well. It's a shame, too, as she did a lot of great admin work at the unit, but she could not stop crossing that boundary.

This is a topic heavily discussed in TLC Intermediate, under the "My Cadet vs. Your Child" focus area. But it never quite delves into this scenario, more so focusing on dealing with parents when the cadet has a problem (e.g., disciplinary, sustained in grade, etc).

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TheSkyHornet
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,563

« Reply #24 on: August 27, 2018, 04:37:22 PM »

I cant even remmeber how far back we go that this has been the policy.  It amazes me that this is even a practice that continues.  My memory is a little foggy,  has it been almost 20 years?

MK

It's amazingly common, and you see it a lot in the encampment environment. 

You'd think it was just the newbs, but in those cases it means that the leadership is either ignorant or willfully negligent.

There are also a >lot< of cadets who twist themselves into logic knots about "incentive PT" and "if everyone does it, etc."
in attempts to hardkewl either their unit or an activity to look more like some movie they have seen and / or give them
a sword to hold over their subordinates.

Again, this is where the adults are supposed to intervene immediately.

This is where you put PT on the weekly unit training schedule so that it's clear as to whether or not the activity is used to conduct a brief but intense fitness session or if this is an off-the-cuff disciplinary form of PT.

It's one thing for the staff to say "Hey, let's put in some push-ups on the schedule," or "We've got some free time; let's do 10 minutes of PT." It's another when the implication is "These guys screwed up; beat them." If that's the message that's being conveyed to cadets, that's an issue. But it doesn't automatically mean that's the case. It very well could be. But that's taking the C/Amn's word for it without any other indicator. I don't get overly excited by remarks like that.
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,329

« Reply #25 on: August 27, 2018, 05:45:12 PM »

Agreed - when it's properly scheduled, the exception stands out.  If PT is the
"thinge de jure", as is often drill, when the meetings aren't proper planned and / or
someone shows up unprepared, that's where you find yourself.

For the most part, if you find yourself doing PT in blues or a field uniform, something's up.

PROTIP: NHQ provides tools such as "Squadron in a box" which detail how meetings should be
chopped up and how the expectations for a cadet  / composite squadron should be spread over
a recurring 13-week schedule.

https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/programs/cadets/library/squadron-training-plans

It's handy for everyone, but a must-read for new CC's and staff.
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TheSkyHornet
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,563

« Reply #26 on: August 28, 2018, 10:18:47 AM »

Agreed - when it's properly scheduled, the exception stands out.  If PT is the
"thinge de jure", as is often drill, when the meetings aren't proper planned and / or
someone shows up unprepared, that's where you find yourself.

For the most part, if you find yourself doing PT in blues or a field uniform, something's up.

PROTIP: NHQ provides tools such as "Squadron in a box" which detail how meetings should be
chopped up and how the expectations for a cadet  / composite squadron should be spread over
a recurring 13-week schedule.

https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/programs/cadets/library/squadron-training-plans

It's handy for everyone, but a must-read for new CC's and staff.

Hence my emphasis: "Take TLC, guys!"

As someone who has taught TLC Basic and TLC Intermediate, I have yet to see a unit commander sitting in the classroom. I know they're out there, but none that I've had yet.

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Spam
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,145
Unit: GA-001

« Reply #27 on: August 28, 2018, 10:32:22 AM »



We make TLC pretty much mandatory for commanders. In the ones ive taught ive had a bunch over the past couple of years... Including a wing cc.

Trying to lead turn on the problems not react to them... Boyd / OODA loop style...



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CAP Talk  |  Cadet Programs  |  Cadet Programs Management & Activities  |  Topic: Pesky Parents...Again... Affecting their Cadets
 


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