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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Membership  |  Topic: Cadet Program Officer Specialty Track Warning
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Ozzy
Seasoned Member

Posts: 361
Unit: GA

« on: July 21, 2018, 08:23:26 PM »

So, just a reminder for those Cadet Program Officers who do NOT have a master rating, as we are a little over two months out from October 1st.

You need to complete whichever level you are working towards by the EOD of 30 September 2018 for the 'Old' CAPP 216. As of 1 October 2018 you will need to meet the new requirements in CAPP 60-11. While a lot of it is similar, there are some changes to the requirements... which may or may not make it easier for you to complete.

https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/programs/cadets/cadet-blog/2018/05/29/introducing-the-cp-officers-handbook--specialty-track-guide-2018
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Ozyilmaz, TSgt, CAP
C/Lt. Colonel (Ret.)

NYWG Encampment 07, 08, 09, 10, 17
CTWG Encampment 09, 11, 16
NER Cadet Leadership School 10
GAWG NCOA 18
darkmatter
Forum Regular

Posts: 158

« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2018, 09:48:23 PM »

thanks for the reminder
« Last Edit: July 21, 2018, 09:54:16 PM by darkmatter » Logged
Gunsotsu
Member

Posts: 95

« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2018, 10:07:18 PM »

There's going to be A LOT of permanent Tech rated CP officers thanks to this one.
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Spam
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,143
Unit: GA-001

« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2018, 12:19:06 AM »


Hey Ozzy... did you pass that last test tonight?

(fingers crossed, go get 'em boy)!

V/r
Spam

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Ozzy
Seasoned Member

Posts: 361
Unit: GA

« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2018, 11:53:37 AM »


Hey Ozzy... did you pass that last test tonight?

(fingers crossed, go get 'em boy)!

V/r
Spam

Going to take the test today, it shouldn't be too hard. I'll need to wait until September to submit for the Master Rating...

Edit: Just completed it... took 5 minutes  ;)
« Last Edit: July 22, 2018, 12:25:16 PM by Ozzy » Logged
Ozyilmaz, TSgt, CAP
C/Lt. Colonel (Ret.)

NYWG Encampment 07, 08, 09, 10, 17
CTWG Encampment 09, 11, 16
NER Cadet Leadership School 10
GAWG NCOA 18
Spam
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,143
Unit: GA-001

« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2018, 08:41:28 PM »


Hey Ozzy... did you pass that last test tonight?

(fingers crossed, go get 'em boy)!

V/r
Spam

Going to take the test today, it shouldn't be too hard. I'll need to wait until September to submit for the Master Rating...

Edit: Just completed it... took 5 minutes  ;)

Hooah Master Qui-gon!  LOL

I just reviewed the (new) Senior and Master CP checklists, and they don't seem insurmountable to me at all.

V/r
Spam

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Gunsotsu
Member

Posts: 95

« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2018, 10:06:08 PM »

I just reviewed the (new) Senior and Master CP checklists, and they don't seem insurmountable to me at all.

I'd grant you that is true, however the 20 contact hours each for Senior and Master ratings only from attending encampment is going to stop and/or stall many members. NHQ should have made provisions for allowing hours from other group/wing multi-day activities to count toward the accumulation.
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,268

« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2018, 11:08:12 PM »

Encampments are a critical part of the cadet experience, and unique to
other activities, I don't see an issue with their service being a gateway to CP Master.

It's no different then NSC being required (in 20 days) for Lt Col.  If you want to wear
a grade that demotes Region+ involvement, you have to put in the time and effort.

There's a lot of misunderstanding about the whys and hows of encampments,
the new expectations might help that, or at least reduce the number of suposed
"experts" who have never even been to one.

The changes to the PC and grade structure are clearly intended to depress both the
field grades and the Master ratings with an eye to reducing people with limited knowledge
who rise to the same level as members who are 100-level CAP scholars.

Also, seriously, 20 contact hours over several years is not really a big deal.  Many encampments
have allowances for staff who only come for part of the activity.  2 (typically) long days helping out
and you're in.  Heck, most encampments would jump at the chance just to get in and out-processing help
from somene who is otherwise capable but can't take a week(ends) off.
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TheSkyHornet
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,540

« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2018, 10:19:22 AM »

Encampments are a critical part of the cadet experience, and unique to
other activities, I don't see an issue with their service being a gateway to CP Master.

It's no different then NSC being required (in 20 days) for Lt Col.  If you want to wear
a grade that demotes Region+ involvement, you have to put in the time and effort.

There's a lot of misunderstanding about the whys and hows of encampments,
the new expectations might help that, or at least reduce the number of suposed
"experts" who have never even been to one.

The changes to the PC and grade structure are clearly intended to depress both the
field grades and the Master ratings with an eye to reducing people with limited knowledge
who rise to the same level as members who are 100-level CAP scholars.

Also, seriously, 20 contact hours over several years is not really a big deal.  Many encampments
have allowances for staff who only come for part of the activity.  2 (typically) long days helping out
and you're in.  Heck, most encampments would jump at the chance just to get in and out-processing help
from somene who is otherwise capable but can't take a week(ends) off.

This.


There's going to be A LOT of permanent Tech rated CP officers thanks to this one.

Well, if you don't want to be stuck at the Tech Rated level, participate.

I'm very happy with the changes. Let's move away from advancements by knowledge and start incorporating experience at higher levels.
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Jester
Seasoned Member

Posts: 359

« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2018, 11:15:19 AM »

The new standards are a major plus in my book.  I'm really tired of members who think just possessing the jersey (and paying the dues to keep them in that jersey) but not pushing the ball forward thinking they should be eligible to wear the ring.
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,268

« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2018, 11:22:39 AM »

I just reviewed the (new) Senior and Master CP checklists, and they don't seem insurmountable to me at all.

I'd grant you that is true, however the 20 contact hours each for Senior and Master ratings only from attending encampment is going to stop and/or stall many members.

They did. In fact, NHQ has reduced the number of required encampment hours significantly from the old curriculum.

CAPP 216 (2014 version, Page 22)
https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/static/media/cms/P216_A3EECB272DFF7.pdf
(for Master)
"Serve as a staff officer at an encampment, Region Cadet Leadership School, or National Cadet Special Activity, and
attend at least 80% of that activity."


Encampments encompass 42 contact hours, so 80-% of that would be ~33 hours (vs. the 20 required today).

CAPP 60-11(2018) Page 64
https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/static/media/cms/CAPP_6011_CP_Handbook__Specialty_Tr_0D421DCA3193B.pdf
Senior
"47 Participate in an encampment as a member of the senior staff for at least 20 contact hours"

Master
Page 65
"29 Serve on staff at a RCLS, second encampment, or NCSA / CSA"

Note the Master requirement allows for a range of activities which would include NESA, HMRS, NBB,
many flight academies, etc., etc., and it does not prescribe hours.  I could think of any number of
ways someone could be on an NCSA staff and not even attend, or be there for a single day and
fulfill this requirement.

The majority of the members in my AOR who have attained CP Master in the past, did so as a matter
of course in their normal participation as active members involved with cadets.  It's not uncommon
for members to go and start running the checklists after the fact (not the best time to do it) and
say "I've done all this already".

I don't see much of anything here has changed with the new expectations.






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Offutteer
Forum Regular

Posts: 145

« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2018, 05:11:53 PM »

It's not uncommon for members to go and start running the checklists after the fact (not the best time to do it) and
say "I've done all this already".

I was told by the Wing AE Officer that is was required to be on wing staff to get a Master Rating in AE.  I took her at her word at the time.  About a year later, I was reviewing the Tech Rating requirements for someone else and decided to see what I would need to do at Wing in order to get my Master Rating.  No wing staff position required, and I had already done everything required.  I just had to redo one task, as I didn't have paperwork for it. 
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,268

« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2018, 05:20:35 PM »

It's not uncommon for members to go and start running the checklists after the fact (not the best time to do it) and
say "I've done all this already".

I was told by the Wing AE Officer that is was required to be on wing staff to get a Master Rating in AE.  I took her at her word at the time.  About a year later, I was reviewing the Tech Rating requirements for someone else and decided to see what I would need to do at Wing in order to get my Master Rating.  No wing staff position required, and I had already done everything required.  I just had to redo one task, as I didn't have paperwork for it.

An all-too common story, comes up a lot in regards to promotions as well.

Last I checked the only rating that required a Wing+ staff role was ESO, and they
recently reduced the TIS required to 18 months from 3 years.

Honestly, for most ratings if you're legit active in the role, at the expectation of the
level, things happen almost by osmosis.  If you have to work too hard "extra"
to get a given badge, you're probably not engaged either enough to warrant the
badge, or in the right vector.

As a CC I've always had people reading and reviewing the checklists regulalry with the
PDO to get them off the "last minute train", because it makes them better staffers
to be working and learning as you go instead of cramming for a final.
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