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CAP Talk  |  Cadet Programs  |  Encampments & NCSAs  |  Topic: Can serving on staff at encampment be used for community service hours imposed by the courts?
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Author Topic: Can serving on staff at encampment be used for community service hours imposed by the courts?  (Read 1152 times)
xray328
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 568

« on: June 25, 2018, 09:19:03 PM »

Can a cadet serve on encampment staff and have that time served used for community service hours for a court imposed sentence (traffic). Would you, as an encampment commander, even want a cadet in that situation on your staff?
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MSG Mac
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,866
Unit: MER-MD-071

« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2018, 10:17:00 PM »

You should be asking both the Encampment Commander because it's his call if he wants to sign off on it. Also let the court know you're a member of  CAP, the Court may not see it as Community service, since you're already a member. 
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Michael P. McEleney
Lt Col CAP
MSG USA (Retired)
xray328
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 568

« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2018, 10:22:20 PM »

Thanks, for the record itís not for me or my two.


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Ned
Resident Philosopher

Posts: 2,184

« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2018, 10:24:39 PM »

Interesting thought.  What do you think?

Leaving aside the philosophical consideration of "dual credits" for a moment, I'm wondering how the commander became aware of the cadet's desire to have CAP time count for court purposes.  It isn't something that would typically appear on an application or come up during a review board.

I'd like to believe the cadet voluntarily disclosed during the application process to avoid any misunderstandings later.

Does it conflict with the Core Value of Volunteer Service to have CAP volunteer time also apply to other situations?  Here, it sounds like the cadet might have received a sentence involving mandatory community service to satisfy a traffic offense.  But the concept might just as easily apply to an employees of a large company that offers paid "release time" for volunteer work done for a 501c charity in the community.  My wife has worked for such companies in Silicon Valley.  Imagine if she were paid her regular salary to work as a Flight Training Officer at encampment instead of taking vacation.  Would that also conflict with the Core Value of Volunteer Service?  Or a "dual hatted" CAP member who was also an active duty airman who arranged for permissive TDY to work at encampment instead of taking leave.

Do we think that a member's work quality at encampment might be different if they were receiving some sort of dual credit?  I could imagine that they might work harder because of the dual credits, but I suppose I could imagine a situation where anyone doing court-ordered "time" may not be an ideal volunteer because of potential resentment of the "forced volunteerism."  I'm honestly not sure which is more likely.

And further suppose that the traffic offender cadet was accepted, and performed successfully in a staff position and then asked that the "volunteer hours" be certified to the court ("sign here, please Ma'am.  This shows I volunteered X hours for the CAP").  Do you award 24 hours credit for each day of encampment?  8 hours?  Some other figure?

Let us know what you decided, and why.

Ned Lee
Cadet Program Enthusiast and Moral Philosopher
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OldGuy
Seasoned Member

Posts: 391
Unit: TBKS

« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2018, 12:27:11 AM »

When I was a cadet (back when dinosaurs roamed the earth) I was very proud of the fact I was a volunteer in service to those around me. If I had ever "needed" volunteer hours - I would have proudly included my times as a cadet.
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lordmonar
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 10,636

« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2018, 08:31:50 AM »

I guess it would be up to the Judge or who ever manages court directed community service.

What anyone in CAP thinks about it has no real bearing on the issue.

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PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP
Pacific Region
TheSkyHornet
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,188

« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2018, 09:18:29 AM »

Thanks, for the record itís not for me or my two.

*deep exhale*

I was wondering what trouble your girl got into since she left last Saturday...

Rough family.

________________________________________________________________________

Anyway........

I would not consider CAP activities to count as community service unless there is a direct outreach to the community. An Encampment, at least to me, would not suffice. Wreaths Across America or similar ventures, however, would.

All that said, I would not have an issue with a cadet who was ordered to community service by a court to serve on Encampment staff. If anything, so long as there is no reasonable potential for a disciplinary issue, it would benefit the cadet to have them participate more than not.
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xray328
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 568

« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2018, 09:38:06 AM »

Thanks, for the record itís not for me or my two.

*deep exhale*

I was wondering what trouble your girl got into since she left last Saturday...

Rough family.

________________________________________________________________________

Anyway........

I would not consider CAP activities to count as community service unless there is a direct outreach to the community. An Encampment, at least to me, would not suffice. Wreaths Across America or similar ventures, however, would.

All that said, I would not have an issue with a cadet who was ordered to community service by a court to serve on Encampment staff. If anything, so long as there is no reasonable potential for a disciplinary issue, it would benefit the cadet to have them participate more than not.


Lol, sheís too busy to get in trouble, sheís heading to INWG next week to serve as SET OIC for them then directly (do not pass go, do not collect $500) to ILWG to be Deputy CC of ATS/CLS.  Be looking for to come back to you guys next year, she had a great experience there.

Thanks for everyoneís advice, sounds like itís up to the encampment cc and the judge.  Iíll advise to be open and honest when the cadet applies.
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vorteks
Seasoned Member

Posts: 241

« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2018, 09:57:22 AM »

Thanks, for the record itís not for me or my two.

Anyway........

I would not consider CAP activities to count as community service unless there is a direct outreach to the community. An Encampment, at least to me, would not suffice. Wreaths Across America or similar ventures, however, would.

+1  IMHO cadets attending any program at an Encampment are students who are there to learn and are not volunteering. Else they wouln't have to pay $200+ for the experience.
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Phil Hirons, Jr.
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 803
Unit: NER-RI-033

« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2018, 03:09:01 PM »

Does it conflict with the Core Value of Volunteer Service to have CAP volunteer time also apply to other situations?  Here, it sounds like the cadet might have received a sentence involving mandatory community service to satisfy a traffic offense.  But the concept might just as easily apply to an employees of a large company that offers paid "release time" for volunteer work done for a 501c charity in the community.  My wife has worked for such companies in Silicon Valley.  Imagine if she were paid her regular salary to work as a Flight Training Officer at encampment instead of taking vacation.  Would that also conflict with the Core Value of Volunteer Service?

Ned Lee
Cadet Program Enthusiast and Moral Philosopher

My company covered half of my time for IG College and the entire week for National Staff College as my annual training. They even paid the NSC course fee. ($200 I think). Considering my annual training is generally IT based it was a bargain for them ($2000 to $3000 for some of the courses I've taken.) This year they introduced a half day for volunteer work (501c required I think) that does not burn vacation time.

I never even considered it an issue in conflict with the Volunteer Service core value. I give my time to CAP (and sometimes my $$). If my employer chooses to not make me burn vacation time to volunteer then they are supporting CAP. Policies like these can only enable more CAP members to take advanced training or work supporting cadets.
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UWONGO2
Member

Posts: 94

« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2018, 06:30:43 PM »

There was the one time a flight sergeant at encampment urgently informed me that a member of her flight needed to contact his parole officer to let her know he'd be unable to take a drug test due to being at encampment.

That was a new one for me....
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MSG Mac
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,866
Unit: MER-MD-071

« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2018, 08:54:10 PM »

I think the cadet should let the Encampment Commander and the Judge to ascertain that the Encampment is an appropriate CS experience. 
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Michael P. McEleney
Lt Col CAP
MSG USA (Retired)
xray328
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 568

« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2018, 08:56:14 PM »

Maybe something like NESA kitchen staff would be more appropriate? No scholarship of course.   Or serving at Encampment but not in a staff position.  Iím sure thereís plenty of help needed on support.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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PHall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 6,098

« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2018, 09:38:59 PM »

Maybe something like NESA kitchen staff would be more appropriate? No scholarship of course.   Or serving at Encampment but not in a staff position.  Iím sure thereís plenty of help needed on support.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Speaking as someone who just completed a large encampment running Logistics, I'd rather have have people who want to be there and not those who have to be there. The ones have have to be there tend to not be team players and are usually more trouble then they're worth.
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Jester
Seasoned Member

Posts: 306

« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2018, 10:14:15 PM »

If it's an otherwise good cadet who's involved and was already picked up as staff, then made a bonehead move that resulted in some community service, I'd lean towards keeping them in the staff spot and working with the judge to make it count as CS.  However, I'd make sure the cadet earned that particular piece of goodwill, and they'd work it off accordingly.
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CAP Talk  |  Cadet Programs  |  Encampments & NCSAs  |  Topic: Can serving on staff at encampment be used for community service hours imposed by the courts?
 


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