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November 18, 2018, 09:54:56 AM
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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Uniforms & Awards  |  Topic: Flight Suit Question and CAP Talk Question
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francisderosa16
Member

Posts: 72

« on: June 10, 2018, 01:58:53 PM »

Hello,
For Cadets that have their wings, are those Cadets allowed to wear a flight suit? If so, what Flight Suit?

Also, how do you upload your Cadet achievements on CAP Talk Profile and posts?

V/R
Cadet Airman
Francis DeRosa
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,253

« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2018, 02:05:43 PM »

Hello,
For Cadets that have their wings, are those Cadets allowed to wear a flight suit? If so, what Flight Suit?

Yes - green one.  No grade on shoulders, grade on nametag is "CADET".

See CAPM 39-1, page 95
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francisderosa16
Member

Posts: 72

« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2018, 02:06:59 PM »

Thank you so much!!
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abdsp51
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,591
Unit: Classified

« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2018, 02:13:00 PM »

Grooming standards and H/W apply.  Also it is not worn in lieu of the UOD,  ie you dont get to wear just cuz.  You need to be on flt ops. 
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Hawk200
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 4,629

« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2018, 10:53:50 AM »

Yes - green one.  No grade on shoulders, grade on nametag is "CADET".

Why does it have to be the green one? The manual doesn't seem to require one or the other specifically for cadets.
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,253

« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2018, 10:59:28 AM »

Yes - green one.  No grade on shoulders, grade on nametag is "CADET".

Why does it have to be the green one? The manual doesn't seem to require one or the other specifically for cadets.

If the cadet is over 18, and out of H/W, then they would have to wear one of the blue ones.  Under 18, cadets are not
authorized to wear corporate variants.
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NIN
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 4,985
Unit: of issue

« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2018, 04:07:35 PM »

Under 18, cadets are not authorized to wear corporate variants.

While the reg does say that, there are instances where cadets have been granted (by the duly designated authorities) the ability to wear the CAP corporate uniforms for certain religious accommodations, either in lieu of the AF granting an accommodation to the wear of the USAF-style, or while the request to AF was pending so that the cadet could participate in all aspects of the cadet program without penalty.

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Darin Ninness, Lt Col, CAP
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,253

« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2018, 04:38:23 PM »

Under 18, cadets are not authorized to wear corporate variants.

While the reg does say that, there are instances where cadets have been granted (by the duly designated authorities) the ability to wear the CAP corporate uniforms for certain religious accommodations, either in lieu of the AF granting an accommodation to the wear of the USAF-style, or while the request to AF was pending so that the cadet could participate in all aspects of the cadet program without penalty.

Yeah, I knew that, but I wanted to see who had their Red White & Blue pedantic hat on today.

You Win!!!



(Heh - hope you're having a good fourth!)
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TheSkyHornet
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,532

« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2018, 09:24:10 AM »

Yes - green one.  No grade on shoulders, grade on nametag is "CADET".

Why does it have to be the green one? The manual doesn't seem to require one or the other specifically for cadets.

If the cadet is over 18, and out of H/W, then they would have to wear one of the blue ones.  Under 18, cadets are not
authorized to wear corporate variants.

To clarify:
Cadets over 18 are only allowed to wear the corporate if they are out of weight standards. Otherwise, they must wear the Air Force-style regardless of whether or not they want to. Grooming standards must be adhered to.

Cadets under 18 must wear the Air Force-style uniform regardless of weight. Grooming standards must still be adhered to.


Air Force-style uniforms for flight operations would be:
- ABU
- BDU
- FDU (A.K.A. "Flight Suit")

Corporate-style uniforms for flight operations, eligible for cadet wear (over 18 only), would be:
- Blue BDU (field uniform)
- Blue FDU

*Cadets cannot wear the Corporate Working Uniform (polo combination).
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UWONGO2
Forum Regular

Posts: 100

« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2018, 06:35:08 PM »

Cadets over 18 are only allowed to wear the corporate if they are out of weight standards. Otherwise, they must wear the Air Force-style regardless of whether or not they want to. Grooming standards must be adhered to.

Anybody know why this changed? The previous CAPM 39-1 didn't prohibit cadets from wearing the corporate field uniform (BBDU) and our wing ground team standardized on that as a uniform. Although we don't have that many cadets on the team (I think less than 5 right now), they all bought the BBDU (although they didn't have to, I suspect they didn't want to be the only people in camo). The cadets wore their USAF-style uniforms for regular meetings and other non-ES activities.
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TheSkyHornet
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,532

« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2018, 10:13:02 AM »

Cadets over 18 are only allowed to wear the corporate if they are out of weight standards. Otherwise, they must wear the Air Force-style regardless of whether or not they want to. Grooming standards must be adhered to.

Anybody know why this changed? The previous CAPM 39-1 didn't prohibit cadets from wearing the corporate field uniform (BBDU) and our wing ground team standardized on that as a uniform. Although we don't have that many cadets on the team (I think less than 5 right now), they all bought the BBDU (although they didn't have to, I suspect they didn't want to be the only people in camo). The cadets wore their USAF-style uniforms for regular meetings and other non-ES activities.

The cadets should not have purchased the BBDU if they're under 18. That's a failure on the leadership to suggest that. It doesn't matter if they "didn't have to," they shouldn't have, as it's a waste of finances for them to buy something they aren't authorized to wear that they may have been suggested to. The correct response by the unit leadership would have been: "Cadets, in accordance with CAPM 39-1, you only wear the corporate uniform if you are over 18 and do not meet H&W standards to wear the Air Force-style uniform (or have a religious accommodations waiver)."

The current CAPM 39-1 has been out since June 2014. That's 4 years the majority of cadets in CAP to have only been familiar with this regulation, not its predecessor.

We have a hard enough time getting cadets to wear their mandatory uniform correctly. We don't need another uniform thrown into the mix with its own set of standards.
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,253

« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2018, 10:19:18 AM »

our wing ground team standardized on that as a uniform

Your wing has(d) a Ground Team?
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UWONGO2
Forum Regular

Posts: 100

« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2018, 05:21:47 PM »

our wing ground team standardized on that as a uniform

Your wing has(d) a Ground Team?

Yes, we have a wing ground team. It's a fairly busy team with ELT and missing person missions, so while anyone can earn ground team qualifications, only those that attend the monthly training meetings, the monthly OPEX, and complete some state required training are added to the alert roster. The K9 teams also have additional training they have to do to remain on the alert roster.

This keeps most of the cadets off the team, only a few older and mature cadets have been on the alert roster and are willing to commit to the training requirements. I believe those have all cycled out of the program, so the elimination of the BBDU as a uniform item for them is no longer an issue, but it remains a problem for any cadet that is currently working towards being on the alert roster. It's unfortunate that they won't have the option of wearing the same uniform as the rest of the team. Perhaps like o-flights, we can get a waiver.
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,253

« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2018, 05:41:33 PM »

For good or bad, you must have a either very small wing, or serendipitously have GT members in the same general
area, as few wings have the ability to have a "Wing Team", per se, that can reasonably deploy instead of or ahead of more local assets.

In my wing, most missions would be over before the "wing team" could even get there.

It also sounds like an excellent way to alienate otherwise qualified members and encourage they
don't bother spending the time and money to maintain quals.

The K9 teams also have additional training they have to do to remain on the alert roster.

The what now?
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CAP9907
Global Moderator

Posts: 77
Unit: NER-000

« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2018, 06:32:37 PM »

our wing ground team standardized on that as a uniform

Your wing has(d) a Ground Team?

Yes, we have a wing ground team. It's a fairly busy team with ELT and missing person missions, so while anyone can earn ground team qualifications, only those that attend the monthly training meetings, the monthly OPEX, and complete some state required training are added to the alert roster. The K9 teams also have additional training they have to do to remain on the alert roster.


Are these 'requirements' to be on the alert roster Wing sanctioned and is there anything published about them? This seems wayyy too much to expect folks to do, esp over and above the CAP requirements of the OpsQual..

Same question about the dog teams and: how do you even certify them? To what standard? I assume that you've secured permission in writing as outlined in CAPR 60-3..
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TheSkyHornet
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,532

« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2018, 09:10:17 AM »

For good or bad, you must have a either very small wing, or serendipitously have GT members in the same general
area, as few wings have the ability to have a "Wing Team", per se, that can reasonably deploy instead of or ahead of more local assets.

In my wing, most missions would be over before the "wing team" could even get there.

It also sounds like an excellent way to alienate otherwise qualified members and encourage they
don't bother spending the time and money to maintain quals.

The K9 teams also have additional training they have to do to remain on the alert roster.

The what now?

Our Wing has SAR dogs. Don't quote me, but I think it was coordinated through GL Region.

Quote
This keeps most of the cadets off the team, only a few older and mature cadets have been on the alert roster and are willing to commit to the training requirements.

That's pretty much most cadet-related things.

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UWONGO2
Forum Regular

Posts: 100

« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2018, 01:43:10 PM »

Are these 'requirements' to be on the alert roster Wing sanctioned and is there anything published about them? This seems wayyy too much to expect folks to do, esp over and above the CAP requirements of the OpsQual..

Same question about the dog teams and: how do you even certify them? To what standard? I assume that you've secured permission in writing as outlined in CAPR 60-3..

I'm not on the ground team, I haven't secured anything. I trust those in command have done everything they need to do.
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UWONGO2
Forum Regular

Posts: 100

« Reply #17 on: July 16, 2018, 01:55:22 PM »

For good or bad, you must have a either very small wing, or serendipitously have GT members in the same general
area, as few wings have the ability to have a "Wing Team", per se, that can reasonably deploy instead of or ahead of more local assets.

In my wing, most missions would be over before the "wing team" could even get there.

It also sounds like an excellent way to alienate otherwise qualified members and encourage they
don't bother spending the time and money to maintain quals.

I'm not on the ground team, so please forgive me if I don't have all the operational details. The team is managed as a single team, but it does occasionally break into regional elements for training or deployment. The concept has been in operation for the past 6-7 years or so and has worked rather well. They are a first-call resource for a couple of different agencies and of course are kept busy with false ELT beacons.
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MSG Mac
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,932
Unit: MER-MD-071

« Reply #18 on: July 17, 2018, 04:03:59 PM »

The AF abuses this terribly, but flight suits should only be worn when participating in flying, and going to or returning from flying.
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Michael P. McEleney
Lt Col CAP
MSG USA (Retired)
GaryVC
Forum Regular

Posts: 189
Unit: PCR-NV-070

« Reply #19 on: July 17, 2018, 04:42:20 PM »

That used to be true when I was on active duty (especially in SAC), but apparently is no longer the case. I gather that people on flying status can wear the flight suit almost anytime a uniform is required. (Promotion ceremonies seem to be an exception).
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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Uniforms & Awards  |  Topic: Flight Suit Question and CAP Talk Question
 


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