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CAP Talk  |  Operations  |  Emergency Services & Operations  |  Topic: CAP CFI/CFII Requirements
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36251Z
Newbie

Posts: 3
Unit: MER-SC-056

« on: June 09, 2018, 09:25:25 AM »

I was told by my Wing DOV that a pilot had to be a Mission Pilot (MP) before becoming a CAP CFI/CFII.  I can't find that documented in either old 60-1, current 70-1 or in a Wing Supplement.  In fact I read all Wing Supplements to old 60-1 and current 70-1 and no Wing has that requirement.  Also, I was told that since my squadron had 1 CFI/CFII I could not get another one until the current person retired.

Further I was told that CAP has a somewhat quota on CFI/CFIIs and that the goal was one CFi/CFII per airplane.

Can anyone direct me to where these goals, quotas, objectives, limitations are documented?
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,270

« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2018, 09:51:24 AM »

None of the above is true.
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arajca
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 4,301

« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2018, 10:36:19 AM »

IIRC, there is a desire to have a MINIMUM of 1 CFI/CFII per a/c, not a maximum.
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etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,308

« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2018, 01:49:58 PM »

I'm very thankful we have three CFIs in our squadron and two of them check pilots who can give F5s and F91s. Sure makes it easier when time for the 8 pilots in our squadron to get annual checks.  Having multiple CFI/CFIIs in our squadron sure helps with training as well. We have 3 Cadets working on PPLs and two seniors working on IFR.

You might need a new DOV in your Wing who understands these things.
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MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO
TheSkyHornet
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,540

« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2018, 01:18:03 PM »

IIRC, there is a desire to have a MINIMUM of 1 CFI/CFII per a/c, not a maximum.

I don't think anyone wants a maximum of any individual skill, regardless of duty assignment.

That's like saying we have too many people who are qualified in FEMA Incident Command.
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mdickinson
Forum Regular

Posts: 198
Unit: NER-CT-022

« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2018, 01:26:03 PM »

I faced this same situation when I first joined CAP, and again when I moved to my current wing. I was a CFI prior to joining CAP, and my main reasons for joining were to fly cadets and ES missions and to to give flight instruction. I had to wait a couple years before being designated as an Instructor Pilot, but in the subsequent 20 years, I've given hundreds of hours of free flight instruction in CAP planes.

I was told by my Wing DOV that a pilot had to be a Mission Pilot (MP) before becoming a CAP CFI/CFII.  I can't find that documented in either old 60-1, current 70-1 or in a Wing Supplement. 
You couldn't find that rule in any reg or supplement because it isn't a rule. If he said it's a rule, he is mistaken.

Quote
I was told that since my squadron had one CFI, [it] could not get another one until the current person retired.
That isn't a rule either. It's just the policy of your wing DOV.
This is a policy that he gets to set. The wing DOV, in cooperation with the wing DO and DOS, and with the approval of the Wing CC, gets to decide how many Instructor Pilots, Check Pilots, and Mission Check Pilots to designate in the wing. And he gets to decide specifically who he wants to entrust with that responsibility.

If your wing DOV is telling you that's his policy, he is correct. It is up to him to decide.

If he is telling you that his hands are tied because that's the rule, he is incorrect.

Here are few reasons why he might telling you either these two things. It's worth thinking over which of them is the case. It might be because:
(a) He heard that's the way it's always been done and doesn't think he can change it, or doesn't want to change it
(b) He doesn't want to have more flight instructors in your squadron or your part of the state
(c) He doesn't want to have you as a CAP Instructor Pilot or Check Pilot... but doesn't want to come right out and say that to your face. He finds it easier to say "I can't designate you as an IP (or CP) because of this rule."

If his reason is (c), there are several things that might be going on. He might not want you as an IP or CP because
(1) he doesn't know you
(2) he doesn't trust you or doesn't think you'd do a good job
(3) he thinks you're too new of a CFI, or too new to CAP, to have that level of responsibility
(4) he doesn't like you.

Regardless of which of these four reasons it is, you can't argue with him, as any of these is valid. (When I joined, the guy who said "thanks but no thanks" to my request to start instructing in CAP aircraft probably had all four as his reason!)

My suggestion is that you go about changing his mind by doing as much flying as you can and becoming known and trusted by as many pilots as you can. Don't bug him, but let him (and the other pilots in your squadron) know that you'd be happy to give instruction in CAP planes at some point. Then make sure your interactions with everyone in CAP are such that they get a positive impression of you as a pilot and a person in general.

If I were DOV, I would be looking to designate as IPs/CPS only CFIs who have excellent pilot skills, lots of experience, and an extremely high level of integrity. Also who show up on time, don't cancel at the last minute, and wear the uniform properly. And perhaps most importantly, who have a positive and helpful attitude, and are good at giving constructive criticism to pilots without making them feel browbeaten.

Hope this helps!
« Last Edit: June 10, 2018, 06:27:12 PM by mdickinson » Logged
mdickinson
Forum Regular

Posts: 198
Unit: NER-CT-022

« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2018, 02:03:54 PM »

Two nits in the original post:

Quote
a CAP CFI/CFII.   
There's no such thing as a "CAP CFI." You probably meant to say "CAP Instructor Pilot."
The relevant CAP qualifications that are often held by a CFI are
  • Instructor Pilot
  • Check Pilot
  • Check Pilot Examiner
  • Mission Check Pilot
  • Mission Check Pilot Examiner
The first three require a CFI certificate. The last two do not.
Read CAPR 70-1, and you'll see the terms defined there.


Quote
a CFI/CFII.
Please don't refer to flight instructors as CFI/CFII.  All flight instructors are CFIs, regardless of which ratings they hold. That's because all flight instructors hold a CFI certificate, not a CFII certificate.

Whenever I endorse a pilot's log book, and must include my certificate number, I put down 1234567CFI - because that's my certificate number.

Any CFI who adds extra letters on to his logbook endorsement, or who has to refer to himself as a CFII, must be worried that he might be mistaken for someone who only holds one rating on their CFI certificate. (There are eight possible ratings on a flight instructor certificate - but no matter how many of the eight ratings you have, your certificate number still ends in just CFI.

I once received a log book endorsement from an instructor who signed his name followed by 1234567CFI/II/MEI.  omg please. That's not your certificate number, and the comment section of my log book is not the place to brag - save it for your email signature block!


Reference: List of possible ratings on a CFI certificate in FAR 61.187, http://www.risingup.com/fars/info/part61-187-FAR.shtml
Airplane Single-engine
Airplane Multiengine
Glider
Rotorcraft-Gyroplane
Rotorcraft-Helicopter
Instrument-Airplane
Instrument-Helicopter
Powered-lift (for all those civilian CFIs who instruct in Bell Tiltrotors or Harrier Jump Jets!)
and maybe Instrument-Powered-lift (unclear if this is a thing)
« Last Edit: June 10, 2018, 07:33:55 PM by mdickinson » Logged
36251Z
Newbie

Posts: 3
Unit: MER-SC-056

« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2018, 08:06:03 PM »

Thank you for your (lenghty) replies ; I know they took some time and I appreciate your effort.

I am not a CFI, so it was not me that I was inquiring about.

One person turned down was an active duty USAF LtCol who was a USAF Instructor Pilot.  Another was a civilian pilot with over 6,000 hrs PIC and 1200 hours instructing.  The LtCol was told CAP didn't need his talent.

I am going to research 70-1 and verify that the number can be arbitrarily controlled.

I have never been in an organization where we had too much talent.

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PHall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 6,319

« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2018, 09:49:28 PM »

Thank you for your (lenghty) replies ; I know they took some time and I appreciate your effort.

I am not a CFI, so it was not me that I was inquiring about.

One person turned down was an active duty USAF LtCol who was a USAF Instructor Pilot.  Another was a civilian pilot with over 6,000 hrs PIC and 1200 hours instructing.  The LtCol was told CAP didn't need his talent.

I am going to research 70-1 and verify that the number can be arbitrarily controlled.

I have never been in an organization where we had too much talent.

He might be an Air Force Instructor Pilot, but what is his FAA rating? That's the one that counts.
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36251Z
Newbie

Posts: 3
Unit: MER-SC-056

« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2018, 09:59:41 AM »

The LtCol could instruct SEL. MEL, Instruments, ATP per his FAA certificate.
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Panzerbjorn
Seasoned Member

Posts: 281
Unit: MER-NC-048

« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2018, 10:37:33 PM »

Quote
Any CFI who adds extra letters on to his logbook endorsement, or who has to refer to himself as a CFII, must be worried that he might be mistaken for someone who only holds one rating on their CFI certificate. (There are eight possible ratings on a flight instructor certificate - but no matter how many of the eight ratings you have, your certificate number still ends in just CFI.

Actually, when Iím giving instruction specifically towards an IFR rating, Iíll use CFII after my certificate number.  I find it saves questions later by my examiners when theyíre auditing a candidateís logbook for the required instruction given by a CFII.  I havenít had an examiner yet say my endorsements are invalid because I used a CFII after my number rather than just CFI.  But, like you, I find the idea of endorsing a logbook with CFI/CFII/MEI after my certificate number to be excessive and silly.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2018, 10:41:36 PM by Panzerbjorn » Logged
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