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September 25, 2018, 12:33:39 PM
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CAP Talk  |  Operations  |  Emergency Services & Operations  |  Topic: Hawaii Wing Providing Aerial Photos of Volcano Eruptions
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Author Topic: Hawaii Wing Providing Aerial Photos of Volcano Eruptions  (Read 1337 times)
etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,226

« on: May 24, 2018, 09:29:39 PM »

Quote
The Hawaii Wing has made three damage assessment flights over the Kīlauea volcanic eruptions, producing 30-70 photos on each sortie for the state Emergency Management Agency to use in evaluating the blasts’ impact and deciding how best to respond.

https://www.cap.news/hawaii-wing-providing-aerial-photos-of-volcano-eruptions

MP, MO, and MS got credited ... but no mention of the AP.   :o
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PHall
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Posts: 6,210

« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2018, 10:01:39 PM »

Maybe they didn't have one.
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etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,226

« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2018, 10:13:57 PM »

Maybe they didn't have one.

So that begs the question. Does a CAP squadron have to have a trained AP in order to fly photographic missions?

Can we just start handing cameras to Mission Scanners for FEMA disaster sorties and more?

Would sure make it easier.
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MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 28,971

« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2018, 10:22:17 PM »

So that begs the question. Does a CAP squadron have to have a trained AP in order to fly photographic missions?

No.
Can we just start handing cameras to Mission Scanners for FEMA disaster sorties and more?
Yes.
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THRAWN
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Posts: 1,873

« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2018, 08:02:23 AM »

So that begs the question. Does a CAP squadron have to have a trained AP in order to fly photographic missions?

No.
Can we just start handing cameras to Mission Scanners for FEMA disaster sorties and more?
Yes.

Worked well for 5 decades. Why make the wheel more round?
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Strup
"Belligerent....at times...."
AFRCC SMC 10-97
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EMT-83
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« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2018, 08:06:29 AM »

Using *gasp* personal cameras.
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OldGuy
Seasoned Member

Posts: 440
Unit: TBKS

« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2018, 08:51:17 AM »

Needs a committee to determine what regulations need to be updated and how the ORM process can be "streamlined" (that means made more time consuming and confusing I think?) to prevent missions, no?
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etodd
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Posts: 1,226

« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2018, 10:57:13 AM »

As an AP Evaluator, I have someone in my Squadron asking about starting to work on the AP SQTR sheet, so that he can sign up for AP missions. I thought it was necessary. But scheduling has been an issue lately. I'll let him know he doesn't "have" to be an AP to be eligible for those missions. He will be happy.
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MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO
Live2Learn
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Posts: 646

« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2018, 12:01:24 PM »

Worked well for 5 decades. Why make the wheel more round?

I don't think our "5 decades" of past experience with aerial photograpy "worked well", it just got by (mostly).  Personal cameras may (or may NOT) capture 'good' images.  What's the point in launching a crew and investing two or more hours in machine time if the product captured by the camera is coarse, low resolution, and worse, not acceptable to our customer?  I've flown more than one sortie where the available 'personal camera' wasn't up to the task. 

Good photo equipment is just one thing.  Good aerial photography may require skills other than 'point and shoot'.   While 'point and shoot' level skills may get acceptable images, and sometimes even 'great' images, I've noticed a lot of blurry and poorly framed shots.  IMHO, investing crew and machine time in a one-time-only mission means we need high quality images that are effectively composed and framed - every time.  I think AP training can be helpful for most of us.
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etodd
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Posts: 1,226

« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2018, 12:37:27 PM »


What's the point in launching a crew and investing two or more hours in machine time if the product captured by the camera is coarse, low resolution, and worse, not acceptable to our customer? 


Agree ... so should an aerial photography mission for a customer be "required by regs" to have an actual AP on-board performing the photography? With an obvious exception made for emergency situations where an AP wasn't available?

Or maybe thats an Incident Commander decision during an event whether to require APs or not?

I'm a professional aerial photographer by trade, have much better gear than supplied by CAP,  and learned nothing new in the AP training, but did it anyway because I thought it was "required". I could have saved myself the time and trouble, if I had only known.  ;D
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NIN
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« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2018, 02:53:34 PM »

US News: "Civil Air Patrol Doing Great Mission In Hawaii"

CAP-Talk:
"They didn't say in that news piece that the scanners were AP qualified. I bet nobody is qualified."
"Why did I bother to get AP if any old scanner can fly?"
"See, this is why we need a nationwide standard."
"I have no information whatsoever, but I'm good at making assumptions. No insurance coverage!"
"I'd do it, even though I'm not qualified, send me to Hawaii."
"Bring the right uniform!"
"Nobody should be wearing a uniform anyway."
"I'm self deploying to Hawaii for some of that sweet, sweet flying, what uniform should I bring?"
"I'm an AP, and I prefer this unifrom"
"Nobody wears that uniform in a plane! Are you crazy?"

Customer: "Hey, thanks Hawaii CAP, these photos are great, they really help out."

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Darin Ninness, Lt Col, CAP
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The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2018 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.
etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,226

« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2018, 03:06:03 PM »


Customer: "Hey, thanks Hawaii CAP, these photos are great, they really help out."

If that is truly all that matters ... lets get rid of 90% of the CAP regs and guidelines. Would make life easier and recruiting would be a breeze. I'm all for it.  ;D

(When I started the thread, I actually figured the MS in the back of the plane was probably an AP, but the PAO or whoever wrote the article didn't know and just assumed MS in back seat. Then it was funny the replies I got, so I took it and ran. LOL)
« Last Edit: May 25, 2018, 03:12:09 PM by etodd » Logged
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Eclipse
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Posts: 28,971

« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2018, 10:33:55 PM »

Keep running.

There's a difference between "best practice" and "required", and in regards to equipment,
99.999999% of CAP AP missions can be accomplish with a point and shoot or decent cell phone.

Reminds me of SDIS which had like a 10 page instruction manual on how to email a photo, and
basically nothing on taking the pictures.

High resolution photos are nice, but mostly make up for mistakes and poor photos (i.e. you can zoom more, etc.),
but few are the customers who need 25+MP RAW images to tell if a bridge is still in place, how high the water is,
or the track of a tornado (BTDT x3).

They just need clear images that tell the story.

In a perfect CAP world, experienced APs would be the only people with cameras in their hands, in the real world,
it's anyone the IC (or more likley the AOBD) has confidence can get the photos needed.

When the "modern" age of CAP photography started, we were using 1.3 MP cameras with floppy disks (but very good lenses),
and somehow managed to come back with photos that didn't include the curvature of the earth, the struts, or our left eye.

Since you're an AP SET, and only >1< of the tasks actually requires an airplane, why not just get your people
up to speed and qualified? 

Yes, you need an aircraft for the actual sorties, but that's easy with an A12 or a self-funded, and the rest of the tasks,
especially fam / prep to get them mission ready, can be accomplished in a morning, or at a unit meeting
with anyone who is willing to read the curriculum and prepare themselves for the taskings.
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etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,226

« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2018, 11:57:19 PM »


Since you're an AP SET, and only >1< of the tasks actually requires an airplane, why not just get your people
up to speed and qualified? 

Yes, you need an aircraft for the actual sorties, but that's easy with an A12 or a self-funded, and the rest of the tasks,
especially fam / prep to get them mission ready, can be accomplished in a morning, or at a unit meeting
with anyone who is willing to read the curriculum and prepare themselves for the taskings.

 :clap:
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CAP Talk  |  Operations  |  Emergency Services & Operations  |  Topic: Hawaii Wing Providing Aerial Photos of Volcano Eruptions
 


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