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May 25, 2018, 06:58:41 AM
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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Uniforms & Awards  |  Topic: Badges and uniforms
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Author Topic: Badges and uniforms  (Read 1458 times)
Holding Pattern
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,205
Unit: Worry

« on: May 01, 2018, 03:21:14 PM »

Should CAPM 39-1 be updated to reflect credential policies as AFI 36-2903 does?

"6.3.5. Lanyards/Access Passes/Identification Badges/Common Access Cards (CAC).
Lanyards will be conservative in nature, dark colors, silver small conservative chains, or
clear plastic. Green lanyards are also authorized with the ABU. Access passes, identification
badges, and common access cards are only authorized for wear when required within the
confines of the location for which they were issued. When worn, they will be worn on the
front of the body above the waist and below the neck and must not present a safety hazard."

This issue doesn't come up often, but it will come up at the higher profile events at CAP (joint exercises where HSEEP badging is used, major conferences, etc.)

I understand this isn't a major issue but at the very least updating that portion will make the job of the PAO easier when the 39-1 police show up and criticize the fact that the color of the lanyards at the wing conference weren't compliant, the badges themselves weren't compliant, etc.

Is this worth sending up the chain?
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hamburgee
Member

Posts: 75

« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2018, 04:03:35 PM »

I'd try to send it up, the worst they can say is "this isn't necessary." It'd be wonderful to have that in regulations, however.
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Gunsotsu
Recruit

Posts: 43

« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2018, 04:25:01 PM »

We aren't the Air Force.

Stop looking for solutions to non-existent problems.
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hamburgee
Member

Posts: 75

« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2018, 04:54:18 PM »

Just because we aren't the Air Force (per se) doesn't mean we shouldn't follow their regulations - especially when we're called the "Air Force Auxiliary" and wear their uniforms (with some minor edits to make them "ours").
« Last Edit: May 01, 2018, 04:58:26 PM by hamburgee » Logged
Holding Pattern
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,205
Unit: Worry

« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2018, 05:02:00 PM »

We aren't the Air Force.

Stop looking for solutions to non-existent problems.

You've clearly never run into the CAP uniform police if you think this problem is non-existent.
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Lord of the North
Forum Regular

Posts: 116

« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2018, 05:42:11 PM »

Recently, the cadets attending a wing conference where the conference badge was also their pass to various conference activities were told by the
Senior Member cadet staff NOT to wear that badge because it wasn't allowed by the CAP uniform manual.  The "CAP Uniform Police" at it's finest!!!

I agree with the proposal to allow the wear of such identification bases for the purposes expressed.  It is needed.
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 28,461

« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2018, 06:16:26 PM »

Should CAPM 39-1 be updated to reflect credential policies as AFI 36-2903 does?

No.

I understand this isn't a major issue

And yet...

Is this worth sending up the chain?

No.
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 28,461

« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2018, 06:17:10 PM »

Just because we aren't the Air Force (per se) doesn't mean we shouldn't follow their regulations

Yes, it literally does.
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hamburgee
Member

Posts: 75

« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2018, 06:32:58 PM »

A large part of CAP wears AF-style uniforms. As such, I believe that their regulations should be mirrored as closely as possible. That is, however, a matter of opinion.
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Starbird
Member

Posts: 70
Unit: NER-NH-056

« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2018, 06:45:25 PM »

This is going nowhere....
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PHall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 6,061

« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2018, 07:25:38 PM »

This is going nowhere....

You're learning!
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 28,461

« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2018, 08:35:56 PM »

A large part of CAP wears AF-style uniforms.

The key word being "style".

As such, I believe that their regulations should be mirrored as closely as possible.

They already do.
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Starbird
Member

Posts: 70
Unit: NER-NH-056

« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2018, 09:28:00 PM »

This is going nowhere....

You're learning!

It's an unfortunate education!   ;D
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I_Am_Twigs
Member

Posts: 66
Unit: RMR-ID-069

« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2018, 09:59:36 PM »

We aren't the Air Force.

Stop looking for solutions to non-existent problems.

You've clearly never run into the CAP uniform police if you think this problem is non-existent.

Being told I'm part of the "CAP uniform police" my advice would be to just ignore them when it comes to this. If it's something you need to get somewhere like an access pass or something then it doesn't really matter if you're in regs or not, you need that piece of information. And if someone brings it up or if they're being picky about it then they're in the wrong.
Overall it's something that doesn't need to be added to CAPM 39-1, it'd just be a waste of time, there's other things that are more important such as the actual mission.
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Mitchell #68874
1st Encampment 2016 
2nd Encampment 2017
C/2nd Lt, CAP
 
Starbird
Member

Posts: 70
Unit: NER-NH-056

« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2018, 10:26:06 PM »

We aren't the Air Force.

Stop looking for solutions to non-existent problems.

You've clearly never run into the CAP uniform police if you think this problem is non-existent.

Being told I'm part of the "CAP uniform police" my advice would be to just ignore them when it comes to this. If it's something you need to get somewhere like an access pass or something then it doesn't really matter if you're in regs or not, you need that piece of information. And if someone brings it up or if they're being picky about it then they're in the wrong.
Overall it's something that doesn't need to be added to CAPM 39-1, it'd just be a waste of time, there's other things that are more important such as the actual mission.

I think the bottom line that we can take away from this thread (and the the squillion other threads around here debating minute uniform discrepancies in endless cycles of argument) is... uniforms are good, nitpicking them is bad, and that the ops at hand should always be more important that what uniform is being worn. Sits back and watches this argument continue until the end of time  But that's okay, I guess!

EDIT: Now that's not to say that people shouldn't try and succeed in looking sharp in uniform!  But when it comes to items like lanyards, which aren't normally part of the uniform anyway, it might be taking things a little far....
« Last Edit: May 01, 2018, 10:32:29 PM by Starbird » Logged
I_Am_Twigs
Member

Posts: 66
Unit: RMR-ID-069

« Reply #15 on: May 01, 2018, 10:39:12 PM »

We aren't the Air Force.

Stop looking for solutions to non-existent problems.

You've clearly never run into the CAP uniform police if you think this problem is non-existent.

Being told I'm part of the "CAP uniform police" my advice would be to just ignore them when it comes to this. If it's something you need to get somewhere like an access pass or something then it doesn't really matter if you're in regs or not, you need that piece of information. And if someone brings it up or if they're being picky about it then they're in the wrong.
Overall it's something that doesn't need to be added to CAPM 39-1, it'd just be a waste of time, there's other things that are more important such as the actual mission.

I think the bottom line that we can take away from this thread (and the the squillion other threads around here debating minute uniform discrepancies in endless cycles of argument) is... uniforms are good, nitpicking them is bad, and that the ops at hand should always be more important that what uniform is being worn. Sits back and watches this argument continue until the end of time  But that's okay, I guess!

EDIT: Now that's not to say that people shouldn't try and succeed in looking sharp in uniform!  But when it comes to items like lanyards, which aren't normally part of the uniform anyway, it might be taking things a little far....

Agreed!
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Mitchell #68874
1st Encampment 2016 
2nd Encampment 2017
C/2nd Lt, CAP
 
NIN
VIP

Posts: 4,838
Unit: of issue

« Reply #16 on: May 01, 2018, 10:39:54 PM »

someone asked me where my credential was at the National Conference one year.

I pointed to my epaulet. :)  (My credential was in my pocket. I have a pathological inability to wear a namebage at a conference when I'm in uniform.. just doesn't sit well with me. Its ... weird)





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Darin Ninness, Lt Col, CAP
Sq Bubba, Wing Dude, National Guy
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.
Mitchell 1969
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 748
Unit: PCR-CA-051

« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2018, 01:19:41 AM »

someone asked me where my credential was at the National Conference one year.

I pointed to my epaulet. :)  (My credential was in my pocket. I have a pathological inability to wear a namebage at a conference when I'm in uniform.. just doesn't sit well with me. Its ... weird)

It is weird. But sometimes weird wins.

At LAX, we mandated that airfield access badges (ID cards) be worn above the belt, below the neck, left side.  Sure enough, we got objections from members of a uniformed federal agency. “We don’t need them - our uniform is enough.”  All well and good, except the civil penalty of $11,000 went to the airport operator and we would be suing their agency  to recoup that. Or, they could take it up with the federal agency that mandated wear of the card. The study ended with them complying.




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_________________
Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.
Luis R. Ramos
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,602

« Reply #18 on: May 02, 2018, 09:43:27 AM »

When the school we meet is closed for some reason and not holding any activity we meet at an armory. The armory was ceded to New York City who in turn ceded it to another company for a women's shelter. But they know us by now, sometimes they wave us, sometimes they request us to go through a metal detector.

Whenever they ask me to go through the metal detector, I get the same feeling that some of  you get when asked for your badges.

"The uniform should be enough."

Then I remember that shortly after Sept 11 during a Fleet Week visit all Navy personnel were passing through metal detectors.

For those sailors, apparently "the uniform was not enough."

And I do not complain.


« Last Edit: May 02, 2018, 10:37:29 AM by Luis R. Ramos » Logged

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spree610
Recruit

Posts: 17
Unit: MER-DC-026

« Reply #19 on: May 02, 2018, 01:24:05 PM »

It's really a non-issue and if someone tells you otherwise point them here and ask them what CAP requirement that it meets for you to not wear it.

Quote
1.1.1.2.1.  CAP’s USAF-style uniform policies will adhere to USAF standards found in the appropriate USAF instructions.  Differences from USAF standards will be only those differences required to meet unique CAP requirement s and allowed by USAF-approved exceptions.  CAP honors our special relationship with the USAF through closely adhering to the policies set for the USAF’s uniform.
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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Uniforms & Awards  |  Topic: Badges and uniforms
 


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