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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Membership  |  Topic: When to sustain a cadet in grade
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Starbird
Member

Posts: 84
Unit: NER-NH-056

« on: April 27, 2018, 12:40:36 PM »

Hello! (Yes, sorry, itís me again :P)

Iíve been think a lot about cadet promotions this morning, and was giving some thought to cadet promotions and when cadets should be sustained in grade.  A quick google search lead me to CAPF 60-(90-94) and while they give basic guidelines,  that doesnít really seem to answer the question as to when you should actually sustain a cadet.  So, thoughts/specific examples of when this should occur? How do you use sustains?  Are they a punishment in your squadron, or merely a performance review? (My understanding is they should be the latter). Honestly, before today I have never seen these forms, so I assume theyíre more of a formality.

Just looking for some input, I guess.  Sorry if this is a convoluted read.

Edit:  For clarity.

Respectfully,

C/2d Lt Starhop
« Last Edit: April 27, 2018, 01:11:13 PM by Starbird » Logged
etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,303

« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2018, 12:49:16 PM »


Iíve been think a lot about cadet promotions this morning, and was giving some thought to cadet promotions and when cadets should be sustained in grade.

What is your motive here? What is driving you to want to research this?

If you have a particular Cadet in mind, then there must be something that makes you feel this particular Cadet should not advance. Is it something obvious where regs already dictate?

Or is this just a general question , because you, for whatever reason, don't think Cadets should advance quickly?

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MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO
Starbird
Member

Posts: 84
Unit: NER-NH-056

« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2018, 12:54:32 PM »


Iíve been think a lot about cadet promotions this morning, and was giving some thought to cadet promotions and when cadets should be sustained in grade.

What is your motive here? What is driving you to want to research this?

If you have a particular Cadet in mind, then there must be something that makes you feel this particular Cadet should not advance. Is it something obvious where regs already dictate?

Or is this just a general question , because you, for whatever reason, don't think Cadets should advance quickly?



I donít have a motive, I just spend a lot of time thinking about things.  I certainly do not have a specific cadet/cadets in mind, Iím just trying to understand the promotion procedures more thoroughly.  I certainly meant no Iíll intent, so I apologize if it came across that way.

Edit:  No, I have nothing against cadets advancing quickly if they meet all the requirements.  Iím not one to look for fault to hold someone back.  My intent here is merely to advance my education regarding the cadet program to the best of my ability.
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etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,303

« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2018, 01:01:46 PM »

I'm not one qualified to answer your question, but in general terms, one thing that your post brought to my mind is how many teens our Squadron gets that are older. Ideally it would be great if 12-13 years old started and had time to slowly progress all the way through to Spaatz. But we have many that join at 16 or 17 years old. They don't have much time, and some don't even get their O'Rides in, they start so late. So for many like this, and for those who are "motivated" to do the work to progress, I personally, enjoy seeing them climb up the chart as much as possible in their short time as a Cadet.
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MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO
Starbird
Member

Posts: 84
Unit: NER-NH-056

« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2018, 01:05:39 PM »

I'm not one qualified to answer your question, but in general terms, one thing that your post brought to my mind is how many teens our Squadron gets that are older. Ideally it would be great if 12-13 years old started and had time to slowly progress all the way through to Spaatz. But we have many that join at 16 or 17 years old. They don't have much time, and some don't even get their O'Rides in, they start so late. So for many like this, and for those who are "motivated" to do the work to progress, I personally, enjoy seeing them climb up the chart as much as possible in their short time as a Cadet.

Very much agreed, sir.  If someone wants to work hard and (if applicable) overcome their late start, then I see nothing wrong with that, in fact Iíd see it as a testament to their motivation/dedication.
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,236

« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2018, 06:39:57 PM »

You sustain a cadet in grade when they have a disciplinary or attitude issue which indicates they
are not ready to be promoted.  It's part of the subjective "last-mile" of being promoted.

It should be very unusual, and hopefully doesn't last too long with cadets who intend to stay in the program.
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lordmonar
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 10,653

« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2018, 07:40:10 AM »

Hello! (Yes, sorry, itís me again :P)

Iíve been think a lot about cadet promotions this morning, and was giving some thought to cadet promotions and when cadets should be sustained in grade.  A quick google search lead me to CAPF 60-(90-94) and while they give basic guidelines,  that doesnít really seem to answer the question as to when you should actually sustain a cadet.  So, thoughts/specific examples of when this should occur? How do you use sustains?  Are they a punishment in your squadron, or merely a performance review? (My understanding is they should be the latter). Honestly, before today I have never seen these forms, so I assume theyíre more of a formality.

Just looking for some input, I guess.  Sorry if this is a convoluted read.

Edit:  For clarity.

Respectfully,

C/2d Lt Starhop
So....it is pretty simple.

If the cadet has not fulfilled all the requirements for promotion he/she is not promoted.    It is kind of that simple.   Sometimes a cadet does something that makes you go out of your way of telling him/her (as in a punishment for bad behavior)...sometimes you tell the cadet when they have met all of the objective criteria (tests, PT, TIG, SDAs, etc) but whose "performance or maturity does not demonstrate an ability to accept increased responsibility commensurate with the promotion."    Either way the appropriat CAPF 60-9X form must be used to document it.
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PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP
Pacific Region
TheSkyHornet
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,520

« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2018, 08:16:10 PM »

In the most simple way of trying to put it: It is up to the Commander who authorizes the sustain (that is, does not approve a promotion).

It is entirely subjective to the discretion of the review board to recommend to the Commander to sustain a cadet; and the Commander can elect, despite a board's recommendation to promote, to sustain regardless.

Typically, you would sustain a cadet who has not met the expectations provided as guidance on the CAPVA 60-100 (Cadet Super Chart). Each person is going to have a varying opinion as to what those expectations are interpreted as. But the key is to apply that interpretation consistently across all cadets in the unit.

For example, the Phase III expectations include: "Given an assignment, takes project from beginning to end; develops appropriate goals, plans, standards, and follows through in execution; demonstrates sense of ownership in all assignments." This might mean that the cadet is expected not only to assume responsibility for and complete assignments, but that those assignments are done within a given deadline and that assignments without deadlines are completed in a relatively timely fashion, not held up for extensive periods of time. Again, subjective; everyone is going to have a slight difference in interpreting the expectation.

You might generally see a sustainment for something that was previously addressed before the promotion became eligible, such as a continual problem with uniform appearance and adherence to grooming standards. A C/MSgt who constantly shows up with a haircut grown beyond the standards should be reminded of the potential consequences for failing to get his haircut. At some point, that C/MSgt is going to be eligible for C/SMSgt. This may be a time at which that C/MSgt is going to be told "Look, we've addressed this multiple times now. I don't think you're ready to promote based on the performance you are demonstrating. We're going to have a sit down and talk this over." And present a Form 60-92 documenting the problem, the method to correct it, and schedule a follow-up review. If it remains unresolved, perhaps the sustainment is grade is not the correction, but more severe action (restriction from public activities, temporary suspension, reduction in grade).


REMEMBER: In this program, the opportunities are a privilege. But the backbone of this program is the leadership element. The whole process is not to provide an activity club and decide who gets to participate. It's to develop cadets into leaders through the development of their character, including self-discipline. Promotions are a tool to develop this, along with the denial of a promotion due to performance. The end result is to learn something and improve. If the method used does not have a goal to make a positive improvement, then it is not an appropriate method at the time of use.
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