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Starbird
Member

Posts: 70
Unit: NER-NH-056

« on: April 26, 2018, 09:10:29 AM »

Hello!

How does your squadron arrange cadet officers while in formation?  We currently have a flight of all officers (We're top heavy).  There is some dispute as to how to conduct a formation with that flight included, with opinions in the squadron ranging from "Cadet officers do not belong in a flight" to "Cadet officers form up as [insert wide range of different ideas here]" to "Cadet officers stand in formation as a flight."  I've consulted the drill manual, which was not very helpful as it doesn't address the particular point (unless I'm blind, which is also entirely possible).  Personally, I think that everyone should stand in formation -- But that also poses the issue of how to conduct opening/closings.  Let me explain:  If you have an flight containing the cadet officer support staff, and the first sergeant forms the squadron up.... how do you have the officer flight report?  If you put a "flight sergeant" out front, then you have an officer saluting an NCO, which is wrong, and if you don't, then I don't even know what you'd do, I guess just have the Cadet Deputy for Support stand out front as flight commander?

This is the first time our squadron has ever had this many cadet officers, so previously it hasn't been an issue.  Problem is, currently, nobody in the squadron seems to know what to do.

This is probably an incredibly stupid set of questions, but nonetheless I'd like to get some answers to clear up the confusion we are experiencing.  I apologize in advance.


Respectfully,

C/2d Lt Starbird, CAP
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Cadetter
Seasoned Member

Posts: 216

« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2018, 09:19:36 AM »

I can't answer how my squadron does it, as we have only one cadet officer (me). However, you can make a flight of officers, have one officer stand in the "flight sergeant" position and one officer stand as flight commander - assuming you have one other flight, then your first sergeant will be over two flights, or one actual squadron, in formation.

FYI, the flight commander never reports to the first sergeant in formation. Only the flight sergeant does. Since you would have an officer filling a junior NCO role, I'd say it's okay for them to report to a senior NCO (the first sergeant).
« Last Edit: April 26, 2018, 09:22:37 AM by Cadetter » Logged
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cnitas
Seasoned Member

Posts: 417

« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2018, 10:08:35 AM »

It is not covered in the manual because this is a non issue.
Offers can fall into a flight just like anyone else. 

Saluting the 1st Sgt. in formation is not a crime and, if done correctly, nobody will get hurt. 
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Mark A. Piersall, Lt Col, CAP
Frederick Composite Squadron
MER-MD-003
Starbird
Member

Posts: 70
Unit: NER-NH-056

« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2018, 10:43:26 AM »

It is not covered in the manual because this is a non issue.
Offers can fall into a flight just like anyone else. 

Saluting the 1st Sgt. in formation is not a crime and, if done correctly, nobody will get hurt. 


Thank you!! I thought that made the most sense.

Edit:  Officers saluting NCOs still seems odd to me but I guess it makes perfect sense in this scenario!
« Last Edit: April 26, 2018, 10:47:51 AM by Starbird » Logged
Spam
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,036
Unit: GA-001

« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2018, 12:10:27 PM »


Same goes for senior member officers. While visiting one of our cadet squadrons last night, I formed up in a flight of seniors (and accidentally stuck a stiff left arm into the armpit of the Major to my left... sorry Dan, it's been a long time since we were cadets). We reported to a C/SNCO, because its about the positions, not the grade. This should be a normal thing, don't sweat it.

V/r
Spam
(PS, then I ditched the gray/whites and ran up and down a field doing PT, awesome fun as long as no ACL injuries, ha ha)!


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Starbird
Member

Posts: 70
Unit: NER-NH-056

« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2018, 12:40:47 PM »


Same goes for senior member officers. While visiting one of our cadet squadrons last night, I formed up in a flight of seniors (and accidentally stuck a stiff left arm into the armpit of the Major to my left... sorry Dan, it's been a long time since we were cadets). We reported to a C/SNCO, because its about the positions, not the grade. This should be a normal thing, don't sweat it.

V/r
Spam
(PS, then I ditched the gray/whites and ran up and down a field doing PT, awesome fun as long as no ACL injuries, ha ha)!




This is starting to make more sense to me sir (my apologies for being so clueless). However, Iíve yet to see the day that our SMs form up in formation.  It would be nice touch though! (But thatís none of my business, being a cadet... *sips Lipton tea*)
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THRAWN
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,850

« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2018, 01:46:59 PM »


Same goes for senior member officers. While visiting one of our cadet squadrons last night, I formed up in a flight of seniors (and accidentally stuck a stiff left arm into the armpit of the Major to my left... sorry Dan, it's been a long time since we were cadets). We reported to a C/SNCO, because its about the positions, not the grade. This should be a normal thing, don't sweat it.

V/r
Spam
(PS, then I ditched the gray/whites and ran up and down a field doing PT, awesome fun as long as no ACL injuries, ha ha)!




This is starting to make more sense to me sir (my apologies for being so clueless). However, Iíve yet to see the day that our SMs form up in formation.  It would be nice touch though! (But thatís none of my business, being a cadet... *sips Lipton tea*)

Wait. What? You don't have squadron opening/closing formations? I was a member of 4 squadrons it was always an all hands type of deal.
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Strup
"Belligerent....at times...."
AFRCC SMC 10-97
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Starbird
Member

Posts: 70
Unit: NER-NH-056

« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2018, 03:06:26 PM »


Same goes for senior member officers. While visiting one of our cadet squadrons last night, I formed up in a flight of seniors (and accidentally stuck a stiff left arm into the armpit of the Major to my left... sorry Dan, it's been a long time since we were cadets). We reported to a C/SNCO, because its about the positions, not the grade. This should be a normal thing, don't sweat it.

V/r
Spam
(PS, then I ditched the gray/whites and ran up and down a field doing PT, awesome fun as long as no ACL injuries, ha ha)!




This is starting to make more sense to me sir (my apologies for being so clueless). However, Iíve yet to see the day that our SMs form up in formation.  It would be nice touch though! (But thatís none of my business, being a cadet... *sips Lipton tea*)

Wait. What? You don't have squadron opening/closing formations? I was a member of 4 squadrons it was always an all hands type of deal.

We have formation, however our senior members stand behind the commander during it side by side.  Meanwhile the cadets form up normally.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2018, 03:27:56 PM by Starbird » Logged
LSThiker
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,804
Unit: Earth

« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2018, 04:45:31 PM »

We have formation, however our senior members stand behind the commander during it side by side.  Meanwhile the cadets form up normally.

I have been in squadrons where seniors were part of the formation and squadrons where the seniors were not part of the formation.  Either works, not really a big loss on either side of the fence.
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Starbird
Member

Posts: 70
Unit: NER-NH-056

« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2018, 04:54:25 PM »

We have formation, however our senior members stand behind the commander during it side by side.  Meanwhile the cadets form up normally.

I have been in squadrons where seniors were part of the formation and squadrons where the seniors were not part of the formation.  Either works, not really a big loss on either side of the fence.

True, after all thereís no mandate saying the Senior Members are required to know drill, etc, so thereís no real need to force their participation in formation either.  However, I personally think it would make things that much more formal/professional, and Iím all for that.  But, hey, itís not what they signed up for.
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J2H
Forum Regular

Posts: 189
Unit: MER-MD-031

« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2018, 05:41:36 PM »

We form up in my Squadron to show solidarity and to salute the colors.
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SSgt Jeffrey Hughes, Squadron NCO
Glenn L. Martin Composite Squadron MD-031
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GaryVC
Forum Regular

Posts: 167
Unit: PCR-NV-070

« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2018, 06:43:02 PM »


This is starting to make more sense to me sir (my apologies for being so clueless). However, Iíve yet to see the day that our SMs form up in formation.  It would be nice touch though! (But thatís none of my business, being a cadet... *sips Lipton tea*)

Apparently this is common in some parts of the country, but I have never seen it. I have been in California, New York, and Nevada wings.
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Shawn W.
Member

Posts: 86

« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2018, 07:23:02 PM »


Quote
This is starting to make more sense to me sir (my apologies for being so clueless). However, Iíve yet to see the day that our SMs form up in formation.  It would be nice touch though! (But thatís none of my business, being a cadet... *sips Lipton tea*)

Im sure like many other things, experience may vary by Squadron. As for my squadron, we are all in for formation. As a Senior Corps, we decided a long time ago to participate in squadron formation to show that we are one squadron and to show our Cadets that we care.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2018, 10:19:36 PM by SarDragon » Logged
Mitchell 1969
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 748
Unit: PCR-CA-051

« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2018, 11:16:59 PM »


This is starting to make more sense to me sir (my apologies for being so clueless). However, Iíve yet to see the day that our SMs form up in formation.  It would be nice touch though! (But thatís none of my business, being a cadet... *sips Lipton tea*)

Apparently this is common in some parts of the country, but I have never seen it. I have been in California, New York, and Nevada wings.

At every unit I was ever in or visited in California, anyone assigned to a staff position, senior or cadet, stood behind the squadron commander during formations. Quite acceptable, as that is where staff officers go. 


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Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

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etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,096

« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2018, 09:18:22 PM »

.... Iíve yet to see the day that our SMs form up in formation.

Many of our squadron's SMs have an array of things from gout, bursitis, either new knees or need new knees, spine issues, etc. ad nauseam. We like the sedentary jobs like Mission Base Ops and Air Crew.  8)
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