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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  The Lobby  |  Topic: Navy Upholds Inclusion of Bible on POW/MIA Table Following Complaint
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Author Topic: Navy Upholds Inclusion of Bible on POW/MIA Table Following Complaint  (Read 1113 times)
OldGuy
Seasoned Member

Posts: 482
Unit: TBKS

« on: April 24, 2018, 11:45:07 AM »

http://www.persecution.org/2018/04/23/navy-upholds-inclusion-bible-pow-mia-table-following-complaint/

At every formal Civil Air Patrol dinner I have been at for at least the last 20 years the POW/MIA table has been part of the agenda.

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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,246

« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2018, 11:57:20 AM »

I've seen and setup plenty of them myself and not one of them had a bible on it.

http://secure.afa.org/members/powmia.asp

Materials needed:

"POW-MIA Script
4 pair of white gloves
Wheel Caps* 
Music – AMAZING GRACE
Tape player 
White tablecloth 
White candle
Small bread plate 
Yellow ribbon
Black ribbon (tied to candle) 
Framed, faded picture
Red rose in a vase 
4 Wineglasses
Salt 
4 Table settings
Slice of lemon
Lighter or Matches

*Caps for Air Force, Army, Navy, Marine Corps (and Coast Guard if that branch is to be honored)
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,246

« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2018, 12:04:21 PM »

The other side of the coin is if there is a Bible on the table, why isn't there also a:

Talmud, Shruti, Quran, Pāli Canon, or Kir'Shara?
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kwe1009
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 915

« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2018, 12:47:58 PM »

I've seen and setup plenty of them myself and not one of them had a bible on it.

http://secure.afa.org/members/powmia.asp

Materials needed:

"POW-MIA Script
4 pair of white gloves
Wheel Caps* 
Music – AMAZING GRACE
Tape player 
White tablecloth 
White candle
Small bread plate 
Yellow ribbon
Black ribbon (tied to candle) 
Framed, faded picture
Red rose in a vase 
4 Wineglasses
Salt 
4 Table settings
Slice of lemon
Lighter or Matches

*Caps for Air Force, Army, Navy, Marine Corps (and Coast Guard if that branch is to be honored)


This was not a ceremony, it is a static display.  Everything on the table is a symbol for something.  If you read the article that is explained.  They could have used any other religious text but since the majority of those in the military expressing a religious preference are still Christian it makes sense to use a Bible instead of any other text.  I would say that over half (if not more) of the static memorial tables that I have seen have the Bible on it.  I never thought anything of it, just like I don't think anything of it when it isn't there.
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Larry Mangum
Global Moderator

Posts: 665

« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2018, 01:12:21 PM »

Eclipse is wrong, the placing of a bible or another religious text is still sanctioned by the USAF. http://static.e-publishing.af.mil/production/1/af_a1/publication/afpam34-1202/afpam34-1202.pdf Page 73 of AFPAM34-1202, clearly shows it is still allowed.
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Larry Mangum, Lt Col CAP
SWR-LA-966
THRAWN
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,888

« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2018, 01:41:36 PM »

Eclipse is wrong, the placing of a bible or another religious text is still sanctioned by the USAF. http://static.e-publishing.af.mil/production/1/af_a1/publication/afpam34-1202/afpam34-1202.pdf Page 73 of AFPAM34-1202, clearly shows it is still allowed.

He never claimed otherwise. The document you cited states that it is optional and that it is a "book of faith", not a Bible.
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Strup
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Luis R. Ramos
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,714

« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2018, 01:59:49 PM »

Like Eclipse I have been to several but have not seen a Bible used in them.

Not that I am arguing against its inclusion. Just that in my limited experience have not seen one placed in it.


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Squadron Safety Officer
Squadron Communication Officer
Squadron Emergency Services Officer
PHall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 6,314

« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2018, 08:32:03 PM »

I've never seen a Bible in any of the POW/MIA tables I've seen at multiple CAP and Air Force events I've been at.
And that goes back to the early 70's when people were still being taken prisoner by the North Vietnamese.
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chacharoo
Recruit

Posts: 22

« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2018, 10:34:04 PM »

I’ve performed and watched this table be done dozens of times, both in CAP and JROTC. I’ve only seen/used the Bible at CAP events. We’ve thought about it at JROTC, but we choose not to for public school purposes. With most honor guard events, improvising and adapting is key, and choosing not to use the Bible is as simple as removing the line from the script when it’s being performed.

Just as a personal remark, the Bible is by far my most favorite symbolic part of this ceremony, the line “founded as one nation, under God” really gets those tears going.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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kwe1009
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 915

« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2018, 10:40:20 PM »

The table in the article is not part of a ceremony, it is a permanent display.  I have seen a Bible quite frequently at this type of display.  I have never seen the Bible as part of a ceremony.
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chacharoo
Recruit

Posts: 22

« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2018, 10:43:58 PM »

The table in the article is not part of a ceremony, it is a permanent display.  I have seen a Bible quite frequently at this type of display.  I have never seen the Bible as part of a ceremony.
I’ve seen it as part of a display as well, at places such as the American Legion. In the ceremony, it is no more than a line in the script. However, no action is performed for it like there are for the salt, lemon, photo, glasses, and candle.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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spree610
Recruit

Posts: 17
Unit: MER-DC-026

« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2018, 08:51:40 AM »

I was active duty AF base honor guard in my previous life and performed/set up a bunch of these. A religious text was never part of it. Heck generally speaking there usually isn't even room on the table for one and that alone would be reason enough for me.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

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JayT
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,338

« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2018, 10:02:25 AM »

http://www.persecution.org/2018/04/23/navy-upholds-inclusion-bible-pow-mia-table-following-complaint/

At every formal Civil Air Patrol dinner I have been at for at least the last 20 years the POW/MIA table has been part of the agenda.

What are you getting at here?
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Pace
CAPTalk Moderator
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Posts: 727

« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2018, 11:15:35 AM »

I can't see how this is going to add any value to CAP. I'm calling this one before it goes downhill.
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Former this & that
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