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October 22, 2018, 01:13:11 AM
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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  The Lobby  |  Topic: Complaint question: Who is the advocate for the member?
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Holding Pattern
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,278
Unit: Worry

« on: April 20, 2018, 12:45:41 PM »

Hypothetically, if one wants to make sure one's complaint is not frivolous before initiating the formal complaint process is there someone I can discuss the facts of a situation with first? Chaplain? An IG member? My congressional representative? Local free legal clinic? Raid my uniform and conference budget for a paid lawyer? Barber?

The problem I'm currently having is that even though a member may seem to have iron clad evidence of wrongdoing, I'm not seeing a system whereby a person can say (hypothetical example): "Person X is breaking regulations X,Y,Z. Here is my (in my mind incontrovertible) evidence. Can you look at this and tell me if I am wrong or over-reacting? Are reasons Q, R, and S sufficient grounds for me to believe that simply notifying the commander of my concerns through the chain will not be sufficient to resolve this issue?"

I would appreciate answers by private message. I will also understand if moderators wish to just lock this thread so that private messages can be sent and speculation doesn't spiral out because of this post.

Thank you all in advance for your assistance and service.
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jeders
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,100

« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2018, 02:11:37 PM »

Not to get too in to the details, typically this is what an IG is for. You can talk to them and see if what you're seeing as wrongdoing is actually wrongdoing or if it's just a misunderstanding. Just because you talk to them, doesn't mean you are or have to make a complaint.
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If you are confident in you abilities and experience, whether someone else is impressed is irrelevant. - Eclipse
etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,254

« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2018, 05:46:18 PM »


 "Person X is breaking regulations X,Y,Z. Here is my (in my mind incontrovertible) evidence.

Uniform infractions ... or something that may cause physical harm to others?

IMHO ... there is a line somewhere, and I guess that is what you want someone else to find for you.

Your second guessing all this and looking here on CapTalk, may be the answer itself.  Step back for a bit, and think on how serious the charges are. Make sure its worth what you are about to start up.
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MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO
LSThiker
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,840
Unit: Earth

« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2018, 05:54:38 PM »

Hypothetically, if one wants to make sure one's complaint is not frivolous before initiating the formal complaint process is there someone I can discuss the facts of a situation with first?

Yes three people
1.  Close CAP friend
2.  IG
3.  A Commander, not just in your chain of command.
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OldGuy
Seasoned Member

Posts: 455
Unit: TBKS

« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2018, 05:55:54 PM »

Is there a CAP Ombudsman?
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PHall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 6,260

« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2018, 08:29:26 PM »

Is there a CAP Ombudsman?

No.
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dwb
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,342

« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2018, 08:59:39 PM »

Always start with your chain of command. If your unit commander can resolve the issue, that's the ideal solution. Formal complaints are not typically step 1. They're more like step 3 or 4.

First try to work out the issue directly with the person involved (if they are a peer), or with your local command team. You can also informally consult a member of your Wing IG staff without filing a complaint.

If the problem is not solved by the unit commander, and if the facts of the case involve a material violation of CAP regulations, then a complaint may be appropriate.
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TheSkyHornet
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,471

« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2018, 09:09:02 AM »

Your chain of command best be first before taking it outside of the chain of command and straight to the IG's desk.

Breaking a regulation isn't, in itself, something that we'd consider to be a court martial/felony/terminable level offense. If there is a violation of safety or ethics, then it starts to become more severe. But not properly keeping inventory, incorrectly wearing a uniform, or mishandling cadet testing materials...this isn't something I would be running to the Wing level with.

I'm not PM'ing this because it's going to turn into "one of those" topics that gets locked anyway, and there's virtually zero information offered in the OP's question to begin with. Without any more details, you're going to get very little help here. If you start sharing those details, be extremely cautious that you're taking matter into your own hands and not addressing them through your chain or the IG, depending on the appropriate route to take.

A lot of worms creeping out of this can here...
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Holding Pattern
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,278
Unit: Worry

« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2018, 01:18:08 PM »

For what it is worth, I engaged my command chain within 15 minutes of the incident. After a careful reading of the regulations and attempting to figure out who I could talk to and see if my issue was worth pursuing without at the same time causing problems for the member in question I decided to contact a CAP chaplain about the incident. That decision resulted in me getting some much needed perspective and calmed me down sufficiently to think rationally about an appropriate course of action. I now have my course charted and my plans laid out for resolving the situation.

I'd like to thank everyone for not engaging in speculation and thank those that reached out privately; I did not respond to everyone as I wanted to be sure I didn't break any of the IG complaint rules should I have needed to immediately engage the formal complaint process.
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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  The Lobby  |  Topic: Complaint question: Who is the advocate for the member?
 


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